Author Topic: Star Trek Beyond  (Read 32706 times)

Offline WBY1984

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #20 on: 12/15/2015 07:51 am »
Eh, this ain't Star Trek, but then, I'm 'beyond' caring: It's a franchise that's had its fair share of quality, and now there's a lot of other excellent sci-fi to get into too.

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #21 on: 12/15/2015 02:37 pm »
In defense of the new movies let us fans be realistic about things. We may think that the old Star Trek was better. However, are we being selective in our memories? Could it be that over the almost 50 years of Trek that we have cherry picked the best moments of the franchise and expect any new Trek to match those lofty expectations? If the older Trek was better then how did it deliver The Motion Picture (which almost killed the franchise off), The Final Frontier, and Nemesis (which almost killed the franchise off)? While we are at it we can discuss most of the third season of the original show, pretty much all of Enterprise, and the first two seasons of TNG.

Speaking of TNG, when that show premiered many fans were outraged. It didn't look a thing like Star Trek. There wasn't even a Vulcan! These days it is inconceivable to think that TNG would not have a place in Trekdom. The show that was initially labeled “not Trek” went on to spawn 5 movies, seven seasons, and two spinoffs adding another 14 seasons to the franchise. We have Star Trek now because the fans gave TNG a chance.

The new movies have their moments of both good and bad. We may not like the bad parts, they may seem like they are not Trek. But there have to be new movies and the franchise has to try new things. We cannot let such a good story about the future die in the past. There has to be a future to Star Trek. After Enterprise and Nemesis the franchise was on life support if not outright dead. The last two movies grossed more money by far than any of the previous movies. So while there are some aspects of the new movies I don’t like I am going to continue to ignore them just like I ignore that Spock’s Brain was ever aired.

Offline WBY1984

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #22 on: 12/15/2015 03:01 pm »
I don't believe my memory is being selective, and I don't hold past trek to some rose-tinted lofty standard. There have been inevitable misfires and franchise fatigue.

I also don't wholly dislike nuTrek (well.. bits of the first film anyway). Where I disagree with you is that I see a distinction between the initial TNG backlash, and the dislike of these new movies: Early TNG, whilst still trying to shake off the influence of TOS, was forging an identity that was all its own. This sometimes worked and sometimes didn't, but it was always its own show.

What I see here is extremely generic. Not just generic trek, but completely generic, by the numbers action stuff. The reason why people are saying it's not Star Trek is not because it's unlike the trek that went before - it's that it's not trying to be anything new.
« Last Edit: 12/15/2015 03:02 pm by WBY1984 »

Offline NovaSilisko

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #23 on: 12/15/2015 05:35 pm »
What I see here is extremely generic. Not just generic trek, but completely generic, by the numbers action stuff. The reason why people are saying it's not Star Trek is not because it's unlike the trek that went before - it's that it's not trying to be anything new.

Exactly. Action movies with a new coat of paint.

I still can't get over this:

Quote
On the original draft by Orci, Pegg commented that Paramount "had a script for Star Trek that wasn't really working for them. I think the studio was worried that it might have been a little bit too Star Trek-y." For his role as the primary screenwriter, Pegg had been asked to make this new film "more inclusive", stating that the solution was to "make a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it's more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent."

But it is telling.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #24 on: 12/15/2015 05:50 pm »
To notsorandom: my memory is not selective at all! I went into the 2009 film very excited and came out disappointed and bewildered for about 50 reasons. I let the ugly ship and set redesigns slide and (barely)tolerated Simon Pegg's comedy Scotty. I mainly disliked the sloppy, plot hole-ridden script that resembled mediocre fan fiction and the shaky-cam, paint-by-numbers action and violence.

And the cynicism. 'Welcome to 2009' I thought.

'Wrath of Khan' 1982 - Khan has planet-destroying weapon and blames Kirk for the death of his wife.
'Trek 2009' - Nero has planet-destroying weapon and blames Spock for the death of his wife.
'Into Darkness' - hell; third times' the charm; why don't we just chuck Khan himself into the mix this time, eh?

Sheesh...
« Last Edit: 12/15/2015 05:51 pm by MATTBLAK »
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #25 on: 12/15/2015 06:35 pm »
Except for the saucer section, the NuTrek Enterprise was about as inspired as the flying mushroom that was the Enterprise D is STNG.

Enterprise E, however, was a Lamborgini compared to a '68 Mustang between the original series and the last Next Gen movie.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #26 on: 12/15/2015 07:30 pm »
I think it looks fun...   :D  And I think the trailer is deceiving - They are deliberately amping up the "Fast & Furious" connection to appeal to a wider audience. I expect the actual film to be far more sedated between the action scenes.

This is coming from someone who loved Star Trek (2009) and HATED Star Trek into Darkness.

Offline Star One

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #27 on: 12/15/2015 09:36 pm »
Director Justin Lin defends the trailer amongst other things in this new interview about the film.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-beyond-criticisms/

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #28 on: 12/16/2015 03:29 am »
Director Justin Lin defends the trailer amongst other things in this new interview about the film.

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-beyond-criticisms/

Well, reading that article and seeing that Justin Lin has been a Star Trek fan since 8 years old does give me a bit of hope after all.  I suppose we will find out July 22.....and it better be good, that is my birthday.

Offline Oli

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #29 on: 12/16/2015 11:04 am »

I don't care about the movies, I just hope the new tv show will be good.

Offline okan170

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #30 on: 12/16/2015 06:23 pm »
I think it looks fun...   :D  And I think the trailer is deceiving - They are deliberately amping up the "Fast & Furious" connection to appeal to a wider audience. I expect the actual film to be far more sedated between the action scenes.

Amusingly, the team I'm with on Beyond is the same pre/post-vis team that did... Furious 7!  Some things just come around again.  Though I'm on the "wait for the TV show" to hope that we get something more traditionally Star Trek.

Offline Star One

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #31 on: 12/16/2015 09:16 pm »
Idris Elba’s ‘Star Trek Beyond’ Character Krall Revealed, Justin Lin Gives Us the Details

http://www.slashfilm.com/idris-elba-star-trek-character-krall/

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #32 on: 12/17/2015 04:14 am »
*DON'T WORRY - NO SPOILERS* -- JJ Abrams has (mostly) redeemed himself with 'The Force Awakens'. Not many lens flares and a good script and pacing. But I get the strong impression he was mostly a 'mere' employee on this film!!
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #33 on: 04/20/2016 01:14 am »
'Star Trek Continues' - Behind The Scenes On The Recreated Original Set | Video

VideoFromSpace

Published on Apr 19, 2016
The fan-fiction show's Executive Producer (and Captain Kirk "re-incarnate”) Vic Mignogna talks about bringing "Star Trek: The Original Series" back to life. Vic, his production team and dedicated fans recreated many sets from “TOS” to complete the "five-year mission." -- 'Star Trek Continues' Boldly Goes To Indiegogo: https://goo.gl/Vj0kyc


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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #34 on: 04/20/2016 03:49 pm »
Once again, it looks like a fan-work is going to leave the 'official' product look like amateur hour and succeed  through reminding us all just why we loved that show.
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Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #35 on: 04/20/2016 05:45 pm »
I will say, this is the first guy who has played Kirk in any of these fan productions who really looks and sounds a lot like Shatner -- at least from the very limited sound track we got.  The sets are perfect.

I think CBS needs to look closely at how successful a lot of the other sf/fantasy/comics genres have been by fielding numerous, sometimes unconnected, TV series and movies in their fictional worlds.  Give old-time Trek fans something like this, a continuation of one of the old series, or several officially condoned offerings that take place in the original Trek universe somewhere.  Let the people who like Abrams' Trek Lite have a new movie in that alternate universe every few years, but give the much larger original Trek fanbase new offerings featuring their well-known and beloved universe.

No other fanbase, to my knowledge, is so frustrated at the lack of product in the franchise they truly love that they continue to produce, at sometimes great cost for amateurs, new works of their own.  No other corporation that owns a franchise has to spend so much time trying to suppress fan-made works that are (perhaps successfully?) competing with the official product.

The message from this should not be "Well, if the classic Trek fanbase doesn't like the new movies, let's at least service the Fast and Furious fanbase."  The message should be "OK, there is a large fanbase that wants stuff from the original Trek universe.  Let's do stuff in both the new and he old Trek universes and get both new and old fans following the franchise again."

Of course, I don't work for CBS, all I can do is kibitz from the sidelines on the internet.  But I strongly feel I'm right about this.  And after all, even the Coca-Cola Corporation ate crow and reversed a tremendous push to New Coke when public reaction convinced them they had made a mistake.  The proliferation of fan-made alternative Trek progamming ought to be taken as the same kind of pushback that the Coke people got to their New Coke product, and motivate CBS to at least officially condone some of these new initiatives in the classic universe.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline Kansan52

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #36 on: 04/20/2016 06:11 pm »
For me, the "Enterprise" being built on the ground broke faith for me. In all variations of ST before the "Kelvin" exploded, star ships were built in a space dock. "Voyager" was an exception designed to suffer reentry and landing plus able to launch again.

But that change broke faith for me not because they changed something from canon, the change had no reason except it looked pretty. Give me changes, especially big changes, that build the story not as set dressing.

Don't get me started on the "Enterprise" in the ocean.

Offline MattMason

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #37 on: 04/20/2016 06:19 pm »
As a fan, I'm not sure I'll like this next film. And I won't expect the incredible work of ST fan-based episodes to continue without increased restrictions.

"Star Trek: Araxar" is currently under a cease-and-desist order from Paramount Pictures. They've apparently went too far in fund-raising (using Kickstarter) and are too polished for the studio to allow them to continue. Since no fan production company owns anything in the ST universe, it is highly likely this order will stick and "Araxar" will never be.

Other fan productions are watching carefully. I believe that groups that use their own private funds and do not attempt to make any public appeals for support, not attempt any selling or even free bundling of the films, will be OK. But Paramount is only tacitly given some fans a privilege to play in the ST sandbox and they can close the playground at any time. For now, they have officially given it the "cool" label on their central websites from time to time, starting with the "New Voyages" production crew.

As for the films: I enjoyed the first JJ Abrams reboot but was less pleased (but enjoyed) the second. The problem doesn't involve the actors (they are excellent) but their universe. Despite the parallels, the ST Abramverse lacks some level of soul. The only way I can help you relate to this is to point you to his second reboot effort: "The Force Awakens." It's exciting. It's got some jokes. It's also highly familiar, like these two ST films (the second being less of an homage but a reverse-copy of "The Wrath of Khan").

Artists cannot live forever to produce their works. Gene Roddenberry did design the world of "The Next Generation" crew sufficiently that it seemed to jibe well enough to the Original Series crew and their adventures. Later shows ("Deep Space Nine", "Voyager" and "Enterprise") were missing something. Frustrated by the criticisms of his last three films, George Lucas sold it all to Disney.

My point is that the recent Star Trek and Star Wars films are the work of a master forger. He's quite authorized to do this, of course. The results can be fun. But a forger rarely, if ever, produces works based on the original artist that are truly superior to the original work.

Art is art because it has a certain rarity as well as quality. Star Wars and certainly Star Trek have more in common with "The Walking Dead" in that some things should probably not continue on and on. The best stories have a final ending to me. My feelings aren't based totally on nostalgia--but I know art when I see it. This isn't art. It's high-priced artisan bread and circuses.

We can do better.
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Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #38 on: 04/20/2016 08:32 pm »
You can get around most of the legal problems by changing the name. I would watch e.g. 'Astro Hike', where the big disk part of the spacecraft rotates to generate artificial gravity.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Star Trek Beyond
« Reply #39 on: 04/20/2016 08:47 pm »
I liked the Star Trek movie from 2009.  Many of the characters nailed it for the original characters.  I liked the second one, but Khan is getting a little old.  I wish they would have Kirk or someone come back in time to help set the timeline straight and Vulcan isn't destroyed. 

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