Author Topic: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget  (Read 13017 times)

Offline aquanaut99

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Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« on: 04/23/2012 11:06 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/22/mitt-romney-budget-cuts_n_1443743.html

If true, then it would mean that for Space enthusiasts, the upcoming presidential election is a choice between a rock and a hard place...
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 04:50 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #1 on: 04/23/2012 11:57 AM »
Good Grief!!!  >:(

NASA can't catch a break, can it? How is is supposed to survive that? It's budget should be increased by at least 20%!!

"Oh, but fiscal times are hard, blah, blah"

Ah; Phooey!

At that rate, there soon won't be any indigenous, U.S. manned flight at all. And for those of you convinced that Private Space would then take up the slack?:

Maybe. But you just watch their funding and ventures start to go as well. Commercial Space would never be cheap enough for this political mindset. If Elon charged only $500 bucks per seat, there are those who would still say it was too much. Think that's an exaggeration? I'd hate to be proven right, but I strongly believe I would be right.

A 20% percent cut would mean the end of SLS, Orion and maybe even one of the NASA Centers, too (I know what some will say about that). This idea needs to be fought and fought hard. I'm not an American taxpayer, so my rage is impotent. But its not too late to fight this - I know many of you patriotic American members of this brilliant website fought hard for your Space program in recent years.

Well; It looks like you veterans may have another War on your hands.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more...
...Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood...
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height."


Your country needs you. I stand with you in Spirit...
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 11:58 AM by MATTBLAK »
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Offline aquanaut99

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #2 on: 04/23/2012 12:16 PM »
Yeah, well, he isn't elected yet. And even if he were, it doesn't mean he would actually cut the budget by this much. Surely, there would be opposition to such a move. Tho, unfortunately, NASA now has less support in Congress than at any time in recent memory, IMHO, and might possibly have even less in the next one...

The whole "times are tough, spaceflight is a luxury we can't afford right now" mindset is unfortunately starting to become the general consensus (maybe almost THE ONLY consensus in politics right now...)

Interestingly enough, the Pentagon seems to escape Romney's desire for austerity...
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 12:20 PM by aquanaut99 »

Offline woods170

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #3 on: 04/23/2012 12:43 PM »

Interestingly enough, the Pentagon seems to escape Romney's desire for austerity...
That's because Romney thinks along the lines of certain other Republicans when it comes to possible solutions for international conflicts.

Offline rdale

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #4 on: 04/23/2012 12:58 PM »
The headline doesn't match the article... It helps to make discussions better when you use actual claims.

"Romney promises to immediately cut them by 5 percent."

Offline aquanaut99

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #5 on: 04/23/2012 01:14 PM »
The headline doesn't match the article... It helps to make discussions better when you use actual claims.

"Romney promises to immediately cut them by 5 percent."

Yes, "immediately" being the operative word here. But in order to fund his vision of austerity and exempting the military, a 20% cut in discretionary spending will be required, with NASA clearly being listed as one of the prime targets. At least that is what is claimed in the article.

Offline rdale

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #6 on: 04/23/2012 01:16 PM »
At least that is what is claimed in the article.

That's why I suggest skipping the article and going to the source...

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/spending

Notice NASA isn't mentioned once. Then go back to the article and if you read it again, you'll notice that the "what can he cut?" section is completely based on the author's guesses.

Offline Antares

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #7 on: 04/23/2012 01:20 PM »
To the OP: What a disingenuous post.  HuffPo is a leftist bitbucket.  Either you can be forgiven for not knowing that or you're part of the group trying to dupe the ignorant and pass it off as real news.  (FTR I would pretty much say the same thing about Fox.)

I recommend locking and deleting this whole thread.
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 01:21 PM by Antares »
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline Gene DiGennaro

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #8 on: 04/23/2012 01:29 PM »
As if somehow cutting NASA's 0.05 percent of the Federal Budget down to 0.04 will somehow end our deficits, let Granny get her medicine, and allow little Suzie to have textbooks in her school.  Yeah Right...

Offline Mark S

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #9 on: 04/23/2012 02:05 PM »
Remember that Obama quickly changed his tune regarding NASA cuts once his presidential campaign focus moved from the primaries to the general election.

And as long as we're on politics, neither political party is serious about balancing the budget and paying down our national debt. We're paying over $300 billion per year just on interest, and all the talking heads can talk about is reducing deficits to "sustainable levels". We're doomed.

So we might as well spend our borrowed money on something exciting while waiting for western civilization to collapse. A penny for NASA!

Cheers!

Offline yg1968

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #10 on: 04/23/2012 02:20 PM »
To the OP: What a disingenuous post.  HuffPo is a leftist bitbucket.  Either you can be forgiven for not knowing that or you're part of the group trying to dupe the ignorant and pass it off as real news.  (FTR I would pretty much say the same thing about Fox.)

I recommend locking and deleting this whole thread.

Here is how the Huffington Post is described in Wikipedia:
Quote
The Huffington Post was launched on May 9, 2005, as a liberal/left commentary outlet and alternative to news aggregators such as the Drudge Report
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 02:21 PM by yg1968 »

Online notsorandom

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #11 on: 04/23/2012 02:27 PM »
At least that is what is claimed in the article.

That's why I suggest skipping the article and going to the source...

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/spending

Notice NASA isn't mentioned once. Then go back to the article and if you read it again, you'll notice that the "what can he cut?" section is completely based on the author's guesses.

Before we all panic and claim that the sky is falling, Rdale's point bares repeating. I can find no source that indicates this claim is anything other then the author's speculation. Has any one tracked down any source for this claim? If not then we should just ignore this and file it under election year fear mongering.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #12 on: 04/23/2012 03:07 PM »
The headline doesn't match the article... It helps to make discussions better when you use actual claims.

"Romney promises to immediately cut them by 5 percent."

Your assertion is not true. The article is accurate - that NASA's budget would be significantly cut under the proposed Romney budget.

The author of the article simply took Romney's proposed numbers and calculated that discretionary spending, which includes NASA, must be cut by 20% to make the Romney plan meet its goals.

Offline rdale

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #13 on: 04/23/2012 03:34 PM »
Your assertion is not true. The article is accurate - that NASA's budget would be significantly cut under the proposed Romney budget.

Nobody is debating that it would involve a budget cut.

Quote
The author of the article simply took Romney's proposed numbers and calculated that discretionary spending, which includes NASA, must be cut by 20% to make the Romney plan meet its goals.

That's the author's plan. But again, you missed out:

"It's almost unthinkable that lawmakers would go along with cuts of such magnitude for air traffic control and food inspection or to agencies like NASA"

So if Romney and the author both agree that a 20% cut would never work for NASA, how can you come and conclude that Romney & the author are saying NASA will be cut 20%? It's obvious - the author of this story (and Romney) are not proposing cutting NASA's budget 20%. The headline of this post is not correct.
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 03:34 PM by rdale »

Offline Gene DiGennaro

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #14 on: 04/23/2012 03:39 PM »
I think some of the previous posters are right to be view this article with suspicion.

Think about it, would Mike Griffin and Gene Cernan endorse a 20% cut to NASA? Not likely.

Yet Mike Griffin and Gene Cernan have publicly endorsed Mitt Romney for President.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #15 on: 04/23/2012 03:45 PM »
I think some of the previous posters are right to be view this article with suspicion.

Think about it, would Mike Griffin and Gene Cernan endorse a 20% cut to NASA? Not likely.

Yet Mike Griffin and Gene Cernan have publicly endorsed Mitt Romney for President.

Romney has published a plan that requires discretionary spending to drop by 20%. NASA's budget falls under discretionary spending. Is there something there that is not clear?

Cernan and Griffin may have endorsed Romney for reasons other than NASA's budget.

Offline aquanaut99

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #16 on: 04/23/2012 04:04 PM »
Romney has published a plan that requires discretionary spending to drop by 20%. NASA's budget falls under discretionary spending. Is there something there that is not clear?

My point exactly. Even though the source is somewhat questionable and certainly ideologically influenced, the fact remains that for Romney's plan to work, discretionary spending must go down massively. NASA is discretionary spending and it is a relatively easy target for cuts inside this category. Therefore, the risk of NASA's budget getting the big axe if Romney implements his plan is high, irrespective of whether Mitt wants to specifically target NASA or not.

Quote
Cernan and Griffin may have endorsed Romney for reasons other than NASA's budget.

I have a lot of respect for Gene Cernan (not Griffin), but that does not mean I have to agree with him all the time.

Offline rdale

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #17 on: 04/23/2012 04:04 PM »
Romney has published a plan that requires discretionary spending to drop by 20%. NASA's budget falls under discretionary spending. Is there something there that is not clear?

Well, it's clear to some of us.

When they say "discretionary spending must decrease by 20%" it does not mean that every discretionary budget must be equally cut by 20%. Some could get cut 5%, others 25%, and still equal a 20% cut as a whole.

It can get confusing especially for those not familiar with U.S. politics.

Needless to say - the headline here is wrong. Romney has made no reference to cutting NASA by 20%.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #18 on: 04/23/2012 04:07 PM »
Romney has published a plan that requires discretionary spending to drop by 20%. NASA's budget falls under discretionary spending. Is there something there that is not clear?

Well, it's clear to some of us.

When they say "discretionary spending must decrease by 20%" it does not mean that every discretionary budget must be equally cut by 20%. Some could get cut 5%, others 25%, and still equal a 20% cut as a whole.

It can get confusing especially for those not familiar with U.S. politics.

Needless to say - the headline here is wrong. Romney has made no reference to cutting NASA by 20%.

I guess some people can find ponies anywhere.

OK, so how much do you think Romney would cut NASA's budget in the context of a 20% cut in discretionary spending?

Offline rdale

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #19 on: 04/23/2012 04:08 PM »
I don't know. But if I did have a guess, I would post it with the title "This is how much I think Mitt Romney will cut NASA" thread ;)

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #20 on: 04/23/2012 04:19 PM »
I don't know. But if I did have a guess, I would post it with the title "This is how much I think Mitt Romney will cut NASA" thread ;)

Since Romney's plan cuts discretionary funding by 20%, and NASA's budget falls under discretionary spending, I think it is fair to say that NASA's budget is in line to be cut by 20% unless and until Romney specifically states otherwise.  If Romney cared about the issue, he would make it clear.

« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 04:19 PM by Danderman »

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #21 on: 04/23/2012 04:42 PM »
So if Romney and the author both agree that a 20% cut would never work for NASA, how can you come and conclude that Romney & the author are saying NASA will be cut 20%? It's obvious - the author of this story (and Romney) are not proposing cutting NASA's budget 20%. The headline of this post is not correct.

In other words, it's just an empty campaign promise (I mean the entire Romney budge), just like many others.  It has no chance to pass any kind of Congress so it's still born.  So why propose it?

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #22 on: 04/23/2012 04:51 PM »
Thread title changed as it's misleading per mod reports.
« Last Edit: 04/23/2012 04:59 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline jongoff

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #23 on: 04/23/2012 05:32 PM »
So if Romney and the author both agree that a 20% cut would never work for NASA, how can you come and conclude that Romney & the author are saying NASA will be cut 20%? It's obvious - the author of this story (and Romney) are not proposing cutting NASA's budget 20%. The headline of this post is not correct.

In other words, it's just an empty campaign promise (I mean the entire Romney budge), just like many others.  It has no chance to pass any kind of Congress so it's still born.  So why propose it?

Oh that's easy. In politics, you propose something unrealistic that you know someone else will balk at, and then you can blame *them* for screwing things up--not yourself for not coming up with a more realistic compromise. As a friend at NASA Ames once put it "it's not about whether you win or lose, but how you place the blame."

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Offline Gene DiGennaro

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #24 on: 04/23/2012 05:34 PM »
NASA may not get a 20% across the board cut under Romney.

Of course any budget submitted by a President most be voted upon by the Congress, so a 20% cut may not stand there. Think of the blowback from Obama's FY 2011 budget proposal. Orion was resurrected as was the heavy lift launcher. Some blowback from legislature would be expected to a 20% cut.

In addition, Romeny could in theory propose a 20% cut in discretionary spending but could also consider a robust space program as a matter of national security, thus sparing NASA from an outright 20% cut. Remember that national security, diplomacy, and soft power projection has played well for NASA in the past.

In that scenario, certain projects could be "cherry picked" for a cut, an increase or outright cancellation. All subject to legislative approval of course.

Offline rdale

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #25 on: 04/23/2012 07:26 PM »
I think it is fair to say that NASA's budget is in line to be cut by 20%

No, it really isn't.

Quote
If Romney cared about the issue, he would make it clear.

Absolutely correct. I know it's hard for non-Americans to grasp this still, but NASA isn't on the top of the priority list for Americans.

Offline John Duncan

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #26 on: 04/24/2012 12:06 AM »
Consider the source, people.  I don't read HufPo but I look at Drudge now and again.  I always have my 10lb block of salt sitting next to me when I do.

A high percentage of what we read in the news is to aggravate either one side or another to get them out shaking the bushes for votes.

Who knows where we will be a year from now.
-John
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Offline jongoff

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #27 on: 04/24/2012 03:48 AM »
Consider the source, people.  I don't read HufPo but I look at Drudge now and again.  I always have my 10lb block of salt sitting next to me when I do.

A high percentage of what we read in the news is to aggravate either one side or another to get them out shaking the bushes for votes.

Who knows where we will be a year from now.

There's at least one HuffPo author that I read on a regular basis...but he's their token libertarian (Radley Balko) that they hired away from Reason.com.

~Jon

Offline yinzer

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #28 on: 04/24/2012 03:04 PM »
Romney has been incredibly vague about what he plans to do, probably so that everyone reads their hopes onto hin and he can answer their fears with "I never said I'd do that." Doesn't mean much.

Recent experience suggests that his highest priority will be cutting taxes for rich people, followed by spending money on the military, with everything else a distant third. This may be good news for NASA in that a lot of the contractors involved also work in the defense world, but it's hard to say exactly.
California 2008 - taking rights from people and giving rights to chickens.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #29 on: 04/25/2012 05:20 AM »
Recent experience suggests that his highest priority will be cutting taxes for rich people, followed by spending money on the military, with everything else a distant third. This may be good news for NASA in that a lot of the contractors involved also work in the defense world, but it's hard to say exactly.

You will recall that Reagan increased the DoD budget significantly, but did little for NASA's budget. The two are not linked.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Mitt Romney and NASA's Budget
« Reply #30 on: 04/25/2012 11:36 AM »
Recent experience suggests that his highest priority will be cutting taxes for rich people, followed by spending money on the military, with everything else a distant third. This may be good news for NASA in that a lot of the contractors involved also work in the defense world, but it's hard to say exactly.

You will recall that Reagan increased the DoD budget significantly, but did little for NASA's budget. The two are not linked.

I've got a wonderful cartoon about that somewhere - I'll see if I can find it and put it up later.
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