Author Topic: How much political support does JWST have?  (Read 9627 times)

Offline KEdward5

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How much political support does JWST have?
« on: 02/23/2012 09:00 PM »
I'm not in favor of cancelling it, but I would prefer this often delayed project is put back maybe a few more years in order to allow for fully funding Commercial Crew and SLS/Orion.

Which have the largest political support?

I ask as I can't understand why the battleground is usually SLS/Orion vs Commercial Crew. 

Offline David AF

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #1 on: 02/23/2012 10:23 PM »
It's a fair comment, especially when we're talking about priorities, but Bolden showed what the White House think by calling this failure of a project a flagship, something he did not say for SLS, Orion or Commercial Crew, with the other being MSL.
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Offline Proponent

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #2 on: 03/08/2012 03:10 AM »
Last fall there was a joint press conference involving Sens. Nelson, Hutchison and, IIRC, Mikulski (if it jogs any memories, that was the one were Nelson referred to Hutchison as the "queen of SLS" or something like that, and it wasn't obvious that Hutchison appreciated the comment).  A deal to proceed with SLS was announced, as was a deal to proceed with JWST (this was not long after the House had proposed ending JWST).  The fact that the two were announced simultaneously makes me think that they are linked:  SLS's backers agreed to support JWST and vice versa.  If so, that would explain why Sen. Hutchison goes after commercial crew and not after JWST.

Offline Prober

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #3 on: 03/08/2012 06:30 PM »
How much political support does JWST have?

Not as much as last year.

I will leave this up to 51D etc to handle.  But it's very possible that the presidents FY13 budget is setup to get the house to cancel out the JWST then the Senate.

The President then looks good and can say "Congress" killed it not me!

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Offline yg1968

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #4 on: 03/08/2012 07:19 PM »
Although not stated directly, it's fairly obvious that JWST was paid by reducing NASA's involvement in Exomars. So cancelling JWST does not help commercial crew. NASA is not just about human exploration. Although I am not rooting for it, I suspect that a more likely target for cuts is Earth Science and technology development.

« Last Edit: 03/08/2012 07:19 PM by yg1968 »

Offline RocketEconomist327

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #5 on: 03/10/2012 03:40 AM »
JWST has the support of influential Senators Mikulski and Hutchison.  These two very powerful women have a lot of say so in the NASA budget.

They are the Chairwoman and Ranking member of appropriations in the senate... and they work well together.

It will be interesting to see what happens when JWST costs climb again.

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Offline Gary NASA

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #6 on: 04/18/2012 03:06 PM »
"How much political support does JWST have?"

Too much. Failure of a project, and being on track now, for its delayed schedule, does not change that fact.

Offline smith5se

Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #7 on: 04/18/2012 07:04 PM »
You mean 'The Blood Sucking Vampire' of NASA? It has much more support politically than it has here... and that's saying something.
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Offline spacetraveler

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #8 on: 04/19/2012 01:36 AM »
The costs are high, but the benefits could be just as high when it is done. Remember Hubble had cost overruns too and faced threats of cancellation.

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #9 on: 04/19/2012 01:56 AM »
I'm not in favor of cancelling it, but I would prefer this often delayed project is put back maybe a few more years in order to allow for fully funding Commercial Crew and SLS/Orion.

The biggest reason it's over budget is that it's taking so long.  Putting it back makes it more expensive, not less.

I'm in favor of finishing the job and getting to the science.  The value of finding out more about the universe is difficult to measure, but in my opinion it's just about the most valuable thing we do as a species.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #10 on: 04/19/2012 03:18 AM »
Rewarding failure worked for Hubble, why not JWST too? Right?
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #11 on: 04/19/2012 03:49 AM »
Would pushing it back say a year help the near term funding priorities? Or does that even work (because I guess you still have to pay all the workers etc.)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #12 on: 04/19/2012 04:08 AM »
Would pushing it back say a year help the near term funding priorities? Or does that even work (because I guess you still have to pay all the workers etc.)
Just give NASA a damn billion or so extra for this year (to help with the immediate needs of ISS), tell them to scale back on any extra expensive features of JWST, and launch it as early as they can and let this saga end. Pushing it back a year would just increase costs.

The best thing Congress could do without costing any extra is to just PASS A BUDGET ON TIME THIS YEAR! ;)
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Offline spectre9

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #13 on: 04/19/2012 05:01 AM »
I don't support JWST.

It's too expensive and irresponsible and I don't see how it can be a big priority.

The astronomers got Hubble. They should be fairly happy.

I know I'm not an American taxpayer but this takes away from less risky things that are much more vital for the USA to have right now.

No gap on large space telescopes but can't put a man in orbit?

To me that's not a good image.

One gap is more important to close than the other.

Offline Proponent

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #14 on: 04/19/2012 05:49 AM »
I'm not in favor of cancelling it, but I would prefer this often delayed project is put back maybe a few more years in order to allow for fully funding Commercial Crew and SLS/Orion.

Which have the largest political support?

I ask as I can't understand why the battleground is usually SLS/Orion vs Commercial Crew. 

In September 2011, there was a press conference in which Sens. Hutchison and Nelson announced the selection of the "final" SLS design (here's the press release).  At the same press conference, the continuation of JWST was also announced.  Sen. Mikulski of Maryland, a big JWST supporter, was mentioned, though I don't remember whether she actually appeared.  Anyway, I took this as pretty clear sign that a deal had been worked out, whereby SLS and JWST supporters would support each other.  I suspect that's why some SLS backers attack commercial crew so vehemently.

EDIT:  "bit supporter" -> "big supporter"; removed duplicative "backers of" before final reference to SLS.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2015 04:43 PM by Proponent »

Offline spacetraveler

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #15 on: 04/19/2012 05:53 PM »
I don't support JWST.

It's too expensive and irresponsible and I don't see how it can be a big priority.

The astronomers got Hubble. They should be fairly happy.

I know I'm not an American taxpayer but this takes away from less risky things that are much more vital for the USA to have right now.

No gap on large space telescopes but can't put a man in orbit?

To me that's not a good image.

One gap is more important to close than the other.

Well there is going to be a gap in large space telescopes, that was one of the purposes of JWST, to take over after Hubble. Hubble is only going to be usable until around 2014 or possibly a little longer. So even with the current launch date of 2018 there will be a 3-4 year gap. If It's cancelled, there will be an indefinite gap.
« Last Edit: 04/19/2012 05:54 PM by spacetraveler »

Online MP99

Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #16 on: 04/19/2012 07:10 PM »
Once JWST is in place, what's it's expected lifetime?

cheers, Martin

Offline spacetraveler

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #17 on: 04/20/2012 04:34 AM »
Once JWST is in place, what's it's expected lifetime?

cheers, Martin

Most estimates I've seen range from 5-10 years. It will not be as long as Hubble since it will be placed at ESL2 which is too far for servicing missions.

Offline spectre9

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #18 on: 04/20/2012 05:58 AM »
Should be serviceable.

Crazy not to bother with such things considering it's supposedly part of NASAs flexible exploration roadmap.

Offline spacetraveler

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Re: How much political support does JWST have?
« Reply #19 on: 04/20/2012 06:18 AM »
Should be serviceable.

No, it will not be serviceable. It will be over 1 million miles from earth. No servicing capability exists for that distance. That is one of the reasons the development is taking so long. The integration and test plan is taking years because of the need to make sure there are no issues. It's possible that some new long range robotic servicing technology could potentially be developed years later, but the mission planning is proceeding under the assumption that there will be no service capability.
« Last Edit: 04/20/2012 06:22 AM by spacetraveler »

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