Author Topic: Mitt Romney Space Policy  (Read 65491 times)

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #120 on: 06/02/2012 03:05 pm »
...what Congress gets to see.

Pretty much agree, with this itty bitty quibble.  Congress "gets" to see as much detail as it wants.  The problem is what Congress "wants" to see.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline MikeAtkinson

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #121 on: 06/02/2012 06:46 pm »
I think the two questions that need answering are:

1. is Mitt Romney going to change policy away from the current compromise of SLS+Orion and ISS+CRS+Commercial Crew (simplified)?

2. is Mitt Romney going to request in his budgets enough money to implement those policies?



 

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #122 on: 06/03/2012 12:05 am »
I think the two questions that need answering are:

1. is Mitt Romney going to change policy away from the current compromise of SLS+Orion and ISS+CRS+Commercial Crew (simplified)?

2. is Mitt Romney going to request in his budgets enough money to implement those policies?
 

Romney's budget includes huge spending cuts for discretionary programs and agencies like NASA, although he does not specify which programs and agencies within the discretionary budget are to be cut.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #123 on: 06/03/2012 01:33 am »
...what Congress gets to see.

Pretty much agree, with this itty bitty quibble.  Congress "gets" to see as much detail as it wants.  The problem is what Congress "wants" to see.

No they don't. They get to request information from NASA and then have NASA fail to deliver that information for months and months.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline zerm

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #124 on: 06/03/2012 02:05 pm »

Romney's budget includes huge spending cuts for discretionary programs and agencies like NASA, although he does not specify which programs and agencies within the discretionary budget are to be cut.


Can you link to a document for that statement, I'd like to look it over myself.

Offline Danderman

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Offline gfagley

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #126 on: 06/03/2012 02:34 pm »
1. is Mitt Romney going to change policy away from the current compromise of SLS+Orion and ISS+CRS+Commercial Crew (simplified)?

2. is Mitt Romney going to request in his budgets enough money to implement those policies?

I just don't trust him.   when he was running for gov of MA, he said that he was for education and then he cut the ed budget one he was elected  (I worked at a state college).

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #127 on: 06/03/2012 02:48 pm »
...what Congress gets to see.

Pretty much agree, with this itty bitty quibble.  Congress "gets" to see as much detail as it wants.  The problem is what Congress "wants" to see.

No they don't. They get to request information from NASA and then have NASA fail to deliver that information for months and months.

Ooooo,  Good point.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline zerm

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #128 on: 06/03/2012 06:33 pm »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/22/mitt-romney-budget-cuts_n_1443743.html

I'd advise everyone to go and actually "READ" the above. Take note that, just like most of what I've read on this thread, no actual documentation is related in the article. The only specific is a statement that Romney "promises" to cut discretionary funds to agencies such as NASA by 5%. (It is the article's writer who projects that those cuts must go as high as 20%, the Romney people said nothing of the kind.) Not exactly what would be considered "huge spending cuts." Also, those of you not from the US, take note that the Huffington Post is far from being anything close to an objective source. In fact they are a hard left-wing publication and very anti-Romney. IMO, their policy is to do everything they can to re-elect the president. It should be discounted for that reason.


Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #129 on: 06/03/2012 07:23 pm »
Let me make this even clearer:

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/spending

"Send Congress a bill on Day One that cuts non-security discretionary spending by 5 percent across the board"

Romney's own web site says that discretionary spending, which includes NASA, will be cut by 5%.

Anyone who thinks that this means that Romney wants to increase the NASA budget is missing a pony.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #130 on: 06/03/2012 08:24 pm »
Without getting into a conversation about politics in general, I believe that Romney's own statement about cutting discretionary spending by 5% answers the question about his plans for NASA.

Offline clongton

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #131 on: 06/03/2012 10:22 pm »
Without getting into a conversation about politics in general, I believe that Romney's own statement about cutting discretionary spending by 5% answers the question about his plans for NASA.


Thank you.
Thread is now back on track.
Can we keep it that way people?
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline muomega0

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #132 on: 06/04/2012 11:54 pm »
Andrew, You are posting in the politics section so I take it you can see L2, and therefore the latest on SLS. If that is somehow not the case then I apologize. It has not yet been made public so we can obviously not discuss it much here but we know what we are going to do with SLS. Its all on L2. SLS is not a rocket to nowhere.

NASA always comes up with fanciful plans, often multiple conflicting ones at the same time, which Congress consistently shoots down - wasting thousands of man hours in the process. What's your point?


A few corrections:

NASA Congress always comes up with fanciful, conflicting plans, writes them into law, then most blame NASA for wasting thousands of manhours

"Its all on L2...." If the plans are so good, why have details not surface for over a decade?

SLS is not economical.  Simply take 2 lunars missions a year, which is 240,000 kg and divide by 10:  the LV size should be around 25,000 kg in order to spread the fixed costs over as many flights as possible to reduce the $/kg.  NOw assume that two LVs accomplish the same metric tonnes per year or include the International Partners and size the LV.  Then consider the largest piece of hardware needed.  Its more complex than this, but it gets you in the ballpark.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #133 on: 06/04/2012 11:55 pm »
A few corrections:

NASA Congress always comes up with fanciful, conflicting plans, writes them into law, then most blame NASA for wasting thousands of manhours

You're wrong. Congress doesn't come up with any plans.. just demands.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline muomega0

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #134 on: 06/04/2012 11:57 pm »
A few corrections:

NASA Congress always comes up with fanciful, conflicting plans, writes them into law, then most blame NASA for wasting thousands of manhours

You're wrong. Congress doesn't come up with any plans.. just demands.


NASA shall build a 70 to 130 metric tonne launch vehicle that is shuttle derived.

I just used your word plans rather than demands.....whatever

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #135 on: 06/04/2012 11:58 pm »
NASA shall build a 70 to 130 metric tonne launch vehicle that is shuttle derived.

I just used your word plans rather than demands.....whatever

Okay, maybe you don't care about the difference between those two words, but I do! What we see in L2 are plans.. what comes out of Congress is (mostly ignorant) demands. When the two collide Congress wins, so NASA has to come up with more plans.. and then they collide again.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Go4TLI

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #136 on: 06/05/2012 12:05 am »
SLS is not economical.  Simply take 2 lunars missions a year, which is 240,000 kg and divide by 10:  the LV size should be around 25,000 kg in order to spread the fixed costs over as many flights as possible to reduce the $/kg.  NOw assume that two LVs accomplish the same metric tonnes per year or include the International Partners and size the LV.  Then consider the largest piece of hardware needed.  Its more complex than this, but it gets you in the ballpark.

To put it simply, you have no way of knowing if it is economical or not.  There is much more to it than launch operations.  And if launch operations were the driving force and smaller always means cheaper, then perhaps we should launch everything on Pegasus. 

This argument is tired and your side of it always uses the point above but bases it around EELV class hardware, because that is where you want the argument to be.  An SLS rocket and EELV-class rockets can and will, hopefully, work very well in concert together.
« Last Edit: 06/05/2012 01:02 am by Go4TLI »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #137 on: 06/05/2012 12:59 am »
Anyhoo, Mitt Romney... ;D
« Last Edit: 06/05/2012 01:05 am by Chris Bergin »
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Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #138 on: 06/05/2012 07:45 am »
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2094/1
"“The next learning step, the next outward step, is the Moon,” Griffin concluded. “I think in the longer, broader reach of space policy, that is the path to which we will return.”
Griffin’s comments echoed those made a week earlier by another former NASA official. “The international space community, which had been shifting attention to the Moon in anticipation of that being the next US focus for exploration, felt blindsided” by the shift in US policy two years ago, said Scott Pace, a former associate administrator under Griffin and currently the director of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University, in a Washington Space Business Roundtable (WSBR) luncheon speech on May 15. “Countries in Asia, such as Japan, India, China, South Korea, saw the Moon as a challenging but feasible destination for robotic exploration and a practical focus for human space exploration.”"

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Mitt Romney Space Policy
« Reply #139 on: 06/05/2012 12:36 pm »
With Griffin's remarks above, it starts sounding like Romney is giving the Etch-a-Sketch a shake.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

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