Author Topic: Why would you go to Mars?  (Read 35995 times)

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #20 on: 11/17/2014 12:35 am »
. Can it be made cheap enough, routine enough? If so, then I have no doubt you could find 1 million people who would love to be part of a growing, vibrant Martian colonization effort. But that's a big if, and we might not solve it this century.
It's far too early to say what will happen by the end of the century.
Keep in mind in 1914 the fastest air speed record was 134.4 mph 54 years later they did a flyby of the moon.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #21 on: 11/17/2014 01:13 am »
. Can it be made cheap enough, routine enough? If so, then I have no doubt you could find 1 million people who would love to be part of a growing, vibrant Martian colonization effort. But that's a big if, and we might not solve it this century.
It's far too early to say what will happen by the end of the century.
Keep in mind in 1914 the fastest air speed record was 134.4 mph 54 years later they did a flyby of the moon.
Agreed. But we also had 40+ years of not going any further than Apollo (probably will get to 50+ years). It's hard to predict one way or the other, progress comes in fits and starts sometimes. And predicting a century out is nearly impossible.

I only mentioned it because it's useful to separate the questions of if you'd go from whether you'd be able to.
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #22 on: 11/17/2014 05:32 pm »
On going to Mars there's lots of reason people may go.

Some may go just to be part of something great and historic.

Later on some will go to seek fortune in a new land.

Others may go to flee religious or racial persecution or be trying to escape an overly regimented government back in their home country.



Offline The Amazing Catstronaut

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #23 on: 11/17/2014 09:22 pm »
I'd be neurologically ineligible if the colonists are vetted thoroughly enough, and quite possibly sexually ineligible if they desired people who'd readily reproduce, but there's no shame in dreaming…

…Mostly it'd be to have a purpose. On Earth, you need to offer a service of some kind, or in the minimum aid the production of some service, be it intellectual, material, administrative, or the like, not to be a drain on resources. Basic survival, finding shelter amongst other expected resources is mostly easy amongst self-styled "developed" nations; even if you cannot provide for yourself, the goodwill of the body populi will ensure you do not starve. This places heavy expectations upon people to excel, to find a purpose - and thus results in millions of unhappy Earthlings. On Earth, a great many people find themselves stuck in self-reciprocating castes; the rich can pay for a superior quality of education for their children, which result in those children earning a high degree of wealth for themselves and thus perpetuating the cycle. The poor can aspire to similar goals, but have a harder job of it. The value of life, both logical and arbitrary, is weighed heavily against most Earth residents, simply because there are multi-billions of them.

On Mars, even the basic survival role is problematic. On Mars, even self-preservation has an inherent value to all the people back on Earth, because people will see those initial colonists as reflections of themselves. The Martian, just by staying alive, by breeding, by thriving, will remind all those back on Earth just how valuable their lives truly are. Earth people need some reminding about how wonderful Earth people can be, sometimes. Astronauts tend to offer that to them.

Martians are valuable. Who wouldn't want that honour?
« Last Edit: 11/17/2014 09:25 pm by The Amazing Catstronaut »
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Offline scienceguy

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #24 on: 11/17/2014 09:34 pm »
If I go to Mars, others will go to Mars. Then we would have humans on two planets.
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Offline kch

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #25 on: 11/17/2014 09:51 pm »
... they'll cast off the yolk of colonialism, just like humans always do....

I hope the white supremacists don't take over Mars that easily.

Ova course not!  It might bring them out of their shells, though, and leave them all bumin with confidence ... ;)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #26 on: 11/18/2014 07:13 pm »
This conversation has been going on for several centuries, now.

Here's Kepler in a 1610 letter to Galileo: "Let us create vessels and sails adjusted to the heavenly ether, and there will be plenty of people unafraid of the empty wastes."

I think Kepler was absolutely right. :)
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Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #27 on: 11/19/2014 04:49 am »
... they'll cast off the yolk of colonialism, just like humans always do....

I hope the white supremacists don't take over Mars that easily.

Ova course not!  It might bring them out of their shells, though, and leave them all bumin with confidence ... ;)

This conversation is getting a bit eggstreme, don't y'all think?  Getting a bit poached off by it.

:D

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Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #28 on: 11/19/2014 08:22 pm »
Putting aside all the silly party thread posts, and getting back to the OP question:

For me, the reason is to see, and to be a part of, what will emerge in human society and human technology expansion given the opening of a vast new frontier of human settlement.

What will actually emerge is not predictable in any significant way, despite the apparent certainty of many who post here; it is uncertain in a radical way.  And that reality of emergence in an entirely new technological and human social environment is fascinating to me.
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Offline Eer

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #29 on: 11/19/2014 08:42 pm »
... they'll cast off the yolk of colonialism, just like humans always do....

I hope the white supremacists don't take over Mars that easily.

Ova course not!  It might bring them out of their shells, though, and leave them all bumin with confidence ... ;)

Ok - I completely missed the pun.  Shame on me, for answering it straight, and shame on y'all for ... well, you ought to be ashamed of something, but I don't quite know what ...
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Offline DanielW

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #30 on: 11/19/2014 08:51 pm »
I don't know why 100,000's or millions will go. But to pretend that it will be awful and undesirable is short-sighted and unimaginative. Sure there is time spent in a tin can, but for people who can dream there is your spacious underground home opening out of the side of a Martian hill into your personal five acres of green house paradise. A vibrant mall of interesting people moving, working and playing just on the other side of your front door in the common tunnel that connects to still further streets. It is the ultimate in urban planning; the solitude and peace of Hobbiton with the amenities and culture of a major metropolis.

It just takes someone to build it. You don't get there overnight but put enough brains together and fascination things will happen, things that start more people dreaming. The trouble being that you absolutely need to start with a critical mass of people and resources so they have enough leisure time and tools to develop locally sourced building techniques.

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #31 on: 11/20/2014 08:58 pm »

In answer to the thread title? I wouldn't. I'm going to go by and drop off folks like Robotbeat but then I'm back on the circut Eath-Venus-Mars with a two week stop-over at "home" (Venus) before we head off again :)

Randy

Which of your objections to the feasibility of a Mars colony don't apply to a flying Venus colony?  It seems to me that the issues you raise about moving more than about 100 people would apply just as much--if not more so--to Venus. 

And here I was thinking no one was going to actually catch that, good job! :)

Also note that I don't exactly have objections to the "feasibility" of a colony on Mars, I have objections to the idea that there are a great number of people actually willing to move to Mars with almost no "incentive" except those that have been given so far.

There's no money to be made there, no "better-life" to be had, no infrastructure, pretty much no anything that has been successfully used to base a "colony" on here on Earth. "Just because" its Mars is no answer and pretty much neither is anything so far discussed. The reasons given have all been personal and that works for the individual only.

DanielW, I don't mean to specifially "beat-up" your post but it happens to embody a majority of the "issues" I have with most people who 'dream' of colonizing Mars so apoligies in advance :)
But to pretend that it will be awful and undesirable is short-sighted and unimaginative.

Not as much as some seem to think, it's actually stating facts which in these type of discussions is VERY hard to come by.

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Sure there is time spent in a tin can, but for people who can dream there is your spacious underground home opening out of the side of a Martian hill into your personal five acres of green house paradise. A vibrant mall of interesting people moving, working and playing just on the other side of your front door in the common tunnel that connects to still further streets. It is the ultimate in urban planning; the solitude and peace of Hobbiton with the amenities and culture of a major metropolis.

And if you work hard enough that MIGHT be possible for your grandchildren, maybe :) The problem is we've BEEN "dreaming" this stuff for decades. When are you all going to settle down and work on getting from the "tin-can" to there instead of skipping the inconvienent parts?

The other problem is that this is HARD on Earth. On Mars? Starting from scratch? "Why" you would go is one thing, HOW you'd do it is by far the more important and pertinent question no one seems to want to ask or answer.

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It just takes someone to build it. You don't get there overnight but put enough brains together and fascination things will happen, things that start more people dreaming. The trouble being that you absolutely need to start with a critical mass of people and resources so they have enough leisure time and tools to develop locally sourced building techniques.

Close but you (and anyone really with this kind of "dream") need to do this critical part NOW, not when you get there and surivial takes up all your time and energy.

People have this idea that "because its Mars" there will be something magical and different than if you replace "Mars" with any other destination. And everyone should be aware of how difficult it is to do something as simple as 'colonizing' the surface of the ocean or Antarctica despite the avialability of resources, power and people here on Earth. I wish it WAS only a matter of some "critical mass" of people being reached but it is simply not that simple. The Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in space is simply not going to have the massive advantages that "colonies" on Earth have enjoyed and all the disadvantages of a hostile environment on top of the other disadvantages. Dreaming is nice, but it doesn't get you anywhere. Sooner or later you have to plan and work within reality to make those 'dreams' come true.

It's not "nihilism" to point out these issues, its simply acknowledging the truth that humans have colonized almost ever corner of the Earth because its rather easy compared to anywhere in space. There is hardly any enthusiasm for colonizing the "last" corners on Earth either but far likely MORE people would be convinced to do so given any of the 'reasons' given for colonizing Mars*

*Mars "technically" has the whole "making mankind a multi-planet species" argument to itself however that same argument applies to just about anywhere in the Inner Solar System and probably cheaper and easier as well.

Randy
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Offline gbaikie

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #32 on: 11/21/2014 12:09 am »

In answer to the thread title? I wouldn't. I'm going to go by and drop off folks like Robotbeat but then I'm back on the circut Eath-Venus-Mars with a two week stop-over at "home" (Venus) before we head off again :)

Randy

Which of your objections to the feasibility of a Mars colony don't apply to a flying Venus colony?  It seems to me that the issues you raise about moving more than about 100 people would apply just as much--if not more so--to Venus. 

And here I was thinking no one was going to actually catch that, good job! :)

Also note that I don't exactly have objections to the "feasibility" of a colony on Mars, I have objections to the idea that there are a great number of people actually willing to move to Mars with almost no "incentive" except those that have been given so far.

There's no money to be made there, no "better-life" to be had, no infrastructure, pretty much no anything that has been successfully used to base a "colony" on here on Earth. "Just because" its Mars is no answer and pretty much neither is anything so far discussed. The reasons given have all been personal and that works for the individual only.

DanielW, I don't mean to specifially "beat-up" your post but it happens to embody a majority of the "issues" I have with most people who 'dream' of colonizing Mars so apoligies in advance :)
But to pretend that it will be awful and undesirable is short-sighted and unimaginative.

Not as much as some seem to think, it's actually stating facts which in these type of discussions is VERY hard to come by.

Quote
Sure there is time spent in a tin can, but for people who can dream there is your spacious underground home opening out of the side of a Martian hill into your personal five acres of green house paradise. A vibrant mall of interesting people moving, working and playing just on the other side of your front door in the common tunnel that connects to still further streets. It is the ultimate in urban planning; the solitude and peace of Hobbiton with the amenities and culture of a major metropolis.

And if you work hard enough that MIGHT be possible for your grandchildren, maybe :) The problem is we've BEEN "dreaming" this stuff for decades. When are you all going to settle down and work on getting from the "tin-can" to there instead of skipping the inconvienent parts?

The other problem is that this is HARD on Earth. On Mars? Starting from scratch? "Why" you would go is one thing, HOW you'd do it is by far the more important and pertinent question no one seems to want to ask or answer.

Quote
It just takes someone to build it. You don't get there overnight but put enough brains together and fascination things will happen, things that start more people dreaming. The trouble being that you absolutely need to start with a critical mass of people and resources so they have enough leisure time and tools to develop locally sourced building techniques.

Close but you (and anyone really with this kind of "dream") need to do this critical part NOW, not when you get there and surivial takes up all your time and energy.

People have this idea that "because its Mars" there will be something magical and different than if you replace "Mars" with any other destination. And everyone should be aware of how difficult it is to do something as simple as 'colonizing' the surface of the ocean or Antarctica despite the avialability of resources, power and people here on Earth. I wish it WAS only a matter of some "critical mass" of people being reached but it is simply not that simple. The Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in space is simply not going to have the massive advantages that "colonies" on Earth have enjoyed and all the disadvantages of a hostile environment on top of the other disadvantages. Dreaming is nice, but it doesn't get you anywhere. Sooner or later you have to plan and work within reality to make those 'dreams' come true.

It's not "nihilism" to point out these issues, its simply acknowledging the truth that humans have colonized almost ever corner of the Earth because its rather easy compared to anywhere in space. There is hardly any enthusiasm for colonizing the "last" corners on Earth either but far likely MORE people would be convinced to do so given any of the 'reasons' given for colonizing Mars*

*Mars "technically" has the whole "making mankind a multi-planet species" argument to itself however that same argument applies to just about anywhere in the Inner Solar System and probably cheaper and easier as well.

Randy

I think that no where on Earth has required government exploration in order to settle. American explored the West to find what was of value to young nation's  newly acquired territory. Main hope in terms of setters was ensuring other nations weren't formed which would be problem related to the United States.  And Antarctica was explored by government but not for purpose of increasing commerce/settlements.

I would say exploring space is a theory more than a plan.
And I would say it's something government does only because it's citizens may or may not want it done.
Or Jefferson wasn't pushed by the public to explore territories in the West, nor has there been any public
push to explore Antarctica. Or both were things decided by government that they decided they needed to do.

In terms of theory, there is no evidence that US or European governments has any will to explore space, but the "theory" is that governments would have this will to explore space.

Though, I would not rule out the possibility that the Chinese government has the will to explore space. And I think that such will is related to the desire to return to the status of being the world's superpower- a role they enjoyed for centuries.

If one wants to be the world's superpower, rather be a country that is the world's superpower, but would rather not be the world's superpower because this leads to internal conflicts- US had riots related to it's policy in regard Vietnam. And US has no real answer of what to do about the Middle East- but would love to wash it's hands of whole matter [but those idiots seem determined to draw in the US]. Not mention tens of trillions the US has spent related to Cold War and general global security policies.

So, US is not particular eager to be the Superpower, other than the fact that the world is filled with madmen who want to rule the world.

But back to the point, assuming one is China, and assuming you want to be the world's superpower, how other than exploring space could one achieve this?
Or if don't have control or ability operate in space, there is absolutely no way one can be a world's superpower. Or a strong presence in space is a minimum requirement.

As I said assuming that China wants to be significant world power or the superpower, it's government has to have an interest in space [and one can narrowly limit this to Earth orbit- though the Moon is obviously in Earth orbit].

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean China wants settlements in space- it could be China doesn't want settlements in space- as they could/ probably would be disruptive [or one of the exact reasons why I favor space settlements].
« Last Edit: 11/21/2014 12:49 am by gbaikie »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #33 on: 11/21/2014 12:40 am »

In answer to the thread title? I wouldn't. I'm going to go by and drop off folks like Robotbeat but then I'm back on the circut Eath-Venus-Mars with a two week stop-over at "home" (Venus) before we head off again :)

Randy

Which of your objections to the feasibility of a Mars colony don't apply to a flying Venus colony?  It seems to me that the issues you raise about moving more than about 100 people would apply just as much--if not more so--to Venus. 

And here I was thinking no one was going to actually catch that, good job! :)

Also note that I don't exactly have objections to the "feasibility" of a colony on Mars, I have objections to the idea that there are a great number of people actually willing to move to Mars with almost no "incentive" except those that have been given so far.

There's no money to be made there, no "better-life" to be had, no infrastructure
False. The whole surface is mapped in far greater detail than the Earth was until a few decades ago, and there's communication (and, in a pinch, navigation) infrastructure already built. Besides, infrastructure will be built there long before there's any question of if you can get a million people there. The first manned missions will place infrastructure on the surface.
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"Just because" its Mars is no answer and pretty much neither is anything so far discussed. The reasons given have all been personal and that works for the individual only.
You don't get it, do you? Personal reasons are all that's necessary, if those people are numerous and willful about it.

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...The problem is we've BEEN "dreaming" this stuff for decades. When are you all going to settle down and work on getting from the "tin-can" to there instead of skipping the inconvienent parts?
Who the heck says we aren't? :) I am working on it.

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The other problem is that this is HARD on Earth. On Mars? Starting from scratch?
Not from scratch. A lot of technology has been developed and is being developed to make this possible. Additionally, we have detailed maps of the entire surface of the planet, in many places down to the meter. There is a communications infrastructure built as well (with commercial capability coming later... NASA has already sent out request for proposals for such a commercial capability). None of this stuff was available during European colonization, CERTAINLY not when aboriginal people settled.
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"Why" you would go is one thing, HOW you'd do it is by far the more important and pertinent question no one seems to want to ask or answer.
Are you kidding? That's a HUGE portion of this forum! In one way or another, that (or very similar) probably is the ultimate goal of the MAJORITY of NASASpaceflight forum threads. This is one of the only threads that addresses the "why", everything else here is pretty much "how."
Quote
Quote
It just takes someone to build it. You don't get there overnight but put enough brains together and fascination things will happen, things that start more people dreaming. The trouble being that you absolutely need to start with a critical mass of people and resources so they have enough leisure time and tools to develop locally sourced building techniques.

Close but you (and anyone really with this kind of "dream") need to do this critical part NOW, not when you get there and surivial takes up all your time and energy.
Are you kidding? People are working this problem hardcore. It's a huge part of my day job, even. :) More can be done, but it's most certainly not just dreaming.

Quote
People have this idea that "because its Mars" there will be something magical and different than if you replace "Mars" with any other destination. And everyone should be aware of how difficult it is to do something as simple as 'colonizing' the surface of the ocean or Antarctica despite the avialability of resources, power and people here on Earth.
And people ARE doing that. Hundreds of thousands of people live on the water. Thousands live in Antarctica (on a temporary basis) and tens of thousands visit as tourists every year (that in a place which is basically off-limits to permanent colonization due to treaties, although there are some small colonies there).
Quote
The Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in space is simply not going to have the massive advantages that "colonies" on Earth have enjoyed and all the disadvantages of a hostile environment on top of the other disadvantages.
What makes you think colonies on Earth didn't also have a hostile environment? People seemed to want to live in colonies even when people were dying left and right of starvation, cold, disease, and attacks by locals. Probably because, you know, people are complicated creatures with a myriad of motivations.
Quote
...
*Mars "technically" has the whole "making mankind a multi-planet species" argument to itself however that same argument applies to just about anywhere in the Inner Solar System and probably cheaper and easier as well.
Well good, but that's off-topic to this thread.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2014 12:42 am by Robotbeat »
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Offline gbaikie

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #34 on: 11/21/2014 01:19 am »

In answer to the thread title? I wouldn't. I'm going to go by and drop off folks like Robotbeat but then I'm back on the circut Eath-Venus-Mars with a two week stop-over at "home" (Venus) before we head off again :)

Randy

Which of your objections to the feasibility of a Mars colony don't apply to a flying Venus colony?  It seems to me that the issues you raise about moving more than about 100 people would apply just as much--if not more so--to Venus. 

And here I was thinking no one was going to actually catch that, good job! :)

Also note that I don't exactly have objections to the "feasibility" of a colony on Mars, I have objections to the idea that there are a great number of people actually willing to move to Mars with almost no "incentive" except those that have been given so far.

There's no money to be made there, no "better-life" to be had, no infrastructure
False. The whole surface is mapped in far greater detail than the Earth was until a few decades ago, and there's communication (and, in a pinch, navigation) infrastructure already built.
Mars is not mapped in far greater detail than Earth.
Earth is covered with ocean which 4 km deep and covers 70% of the surface- not much is being done with
this surface under a vast amount of water. Or there is little use to having it mapped.
But what is important on Earth is mapped. We have pretty good idea where coal is [in areas which could be mined- or not in area such 4 km under the ocean or not in areas lacking the infrastructure to make it possible to mine coal. We also have some idea where oil is. We also know where aquifers are. We know soil conditions. Or we know a lot about what is important to know in regards to Earth- it's mapped and anyone interested can find all kinds of maps.
On Mars it's only a guess there there are aquifers, none have been mapped. We know nothing about caves on Mars.
A question is on Earth is are there any significant caves which have not been mapped- some are kept secret so there are not ruined, but it's mapped, just not widely available due to certain humans who have the desire not to have it widely known- and not particularly important in any case.
But basically there is a lot known about Earth, though it's not necessarily available to a Google search- though a lot is.

I would say nothing of any real important on Mars has been mapped any significant detail- that makes it useful for any potential Mars settler.
There could massive amounts iron meteorites on Mars- that is guess. I could not say where is best place to find most accessible amounts of iron meteorites.
I can't say where is best place to find water. Don't have solar maps of Mars, like we do for Earth. Don't any geological data which allow you to decide where to put a structure on Mars.
Basically know nothing of any real importance in regard to Mars.
The same applies to lunar poles.





« Last Edit: 11/21/2014 01:31 am by gbaikie »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #35 on: 11/21/2014 01:26 am »
I would say nothing of any real important on Mars has been mapped any significant detail- that makes it useful for any potential Mars setter.

First you have to have a plan for settling Mars, then you can say what needs to be mapped and to what detail. No-one has a (sensible) clue what we need to settle Mars. The most detailed plans are built on resources that are available just about everywhere on the surface - water, and sunlight - and aren't very feasible.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #36 on: 11/21/2014 01:33 am »
...and free iron on the surface in the form of iron-nickel meteorites.

We have maps of buried glaciers on Mars, too, plus mineral maps from orbit taken from various instruments. But we certainly have much better satellite imagery than we've had on Earth until a few decades ago. We know of every hill, valley, mountain, and /dune/ on the planet.
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Offline high road

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #37 on: 11/21/2014 05:30 am »
Quote

I think that no where on Earth has required government exploration in order to settle. American explored the West to find what was of value to young nation's  newly acquired territory. Main hope in terms of setters was ensuring other nations weren't formed which would be problem related to the United States.  And Antarctica was explored by government but not for purpose of increasing commerce/settlements.

I would say exploring space is a theory more than a plan.
And I would say it's something government does only because it's citizens may or may not want it done.
Or Jefferson wasn't pushed by the public to explore territories in the West, nor has there been any public
push to explore Antarctica. Or both were things decided by government that they decided they needed to do.

You can't compare Mars settlement to Lewis and Clarck etc. The US was already settled and thriving economically. Once Mars reaches that point, further exploration is much easier. You need to compare to Columbus, the conquistadores, the many long exploration trips around the world, etc. The missions that set out with low chances of profit in the near future.

Offline high road

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #38 on: 11/21/2014 05:51 am »
Quote from: RanulfC
"Just because" its Mars is no answer and pretty much neither is anything so far discussed. The reasons given have all been personal and that works for the individual only.
You don't get it, do you? Personal reasons are all that's necessary, if those people are numerous and willful about it.

People have been willing to endure bad conditions for all kinds of motivations, and people are extremely bad at risk assessment. However, that only counts for those that get to go. Far fewer people are willing to pay the bill. Even the people motivated to go are basically saying they wouldn't mind going if somebody paid for it.

Sure, we're working on all the different technologies.But  funding a mission that integrates all that stuff to work together? Not so much.

to Randy: that's even more so for Venus.
« Last Edit: 11/24/2014 05:48 am by high road »

Offline pagheca

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Re: Why would you go to Mars?
« Reply #39 on: 11/21/2014 08:25 am »
I spent many years in Antarctica. Time by time I met mountaneers tourists there, sometime very wealthy people doing "the trip of their life".

I remember a small group of rich north-american middle-age people skiing the last 100 or 150 miles to the Pole after being brought there by a Twin Otter (forget Douglas Mawson: a 10 days trip or so with a large support and safety net behind). One of them once told me he would never do something like this again. It was stupid and too hard. This was people that probably spent a year or two to get ready for this.

As many scientists, I also spent a winter at the Pole. We lived in isolation for about 8 months. Nothing terrible except for the cold (I mean: no EVA suit required to see the sky, etc.). We had a little greenhouse and I, like many, occasionally went there in swimsuit to feel the sunlight bulbs radiation over my skin during the long winter.

Near the end of it, you could see there were two set of people: those counting days missing to the northbound travel, and people still happy (like me). The first group was   depressed, sometime VERY depressed. Many of us started to be grumpy and oversensitive, and to argue for little things. There had also been an occasional fight (and an attempt of harassment to one of the few women in the station - duly reported). Efficiency went down in general.

Consider all those people passed quite hard medical and psychological tests before the flight southbond and left home with the idea of being realizing the trip of their lifetime.

And this was just Antarctica. And a 12 months trip in total.

Now, think to what could happen after YEARS (not MONTHS) on Mars: no fresh air, less gravity and its physiological consequences, no rain (I really missed the rain after a while...), no way to run around and take a bath, a deep sense of being cast away MILLIONS km from "home", etc. etc. etc.

Desperately willing to go to Mars doesn't necessarily equates to fit to endure a very long stay on another planet. Specially when you know there is no return ticket.
 
Moreover, the impact of a few depressed, unmotivated people on the community could reach tragic consequences and spread further depression. This happened also to the first communities in new places (Australia, America, very long seafare travels), contributing to their end sometime. In any case the environment there was much less dependant from everyone else welfare. A single crazy person on a Mars pressurized station may mean a big crisis. Also considering that - fortunately! - there is no more a "just hang him" policy available today.

Said that, I would really like to go to Mars, but not forever. And not because I do not think I could (that's the easy part), but because I do not KNOW what I would think after a few years there.

I would rather go to Mars with no return ticket in my pocket only if conditions on Earth were even more dramatic than there for me and the people I love. I mean a Madmax scenario. And I think that thinking "if they want to go it means they are fit to go" it's the recipe for disaster.

Fortunately, IMHO there will be no Mars permanent station community there for a while. Let say a century or more. Whatever Elon Musk, that I deeply respect as an entrepreneur, thinks.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2014 12:25 pm by pagheca »

 

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