A very strange NOTAM that indicates something being launched out of XSLC on the night of May 12 (missile test?): A0507/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY:N272440E1062527-N270348E1061854 -N271521E1053214-N273614E1053838BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TOFLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 12 MAY 12:57 2013 UNTIL 12 MAY 13:46 2013. CREATED:10 MAY 06:48 2013There's another evidence that may or may not be related to this thing - report coming soon.
Quote from: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/10/2013 07:56 amA very strange NOTAM that indicates something being launched out of XSLC on the night of May 12 (missile test?): A0507/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY:N272440E1062527-N270348E1061854 -N271521E1053214-N273614E1053838BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TOFLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 12 MAY 12:57 2013 UNTIL 12 MAY 13:46 2013. CREATED:10 MAY 06:48 2013There's another evidence that may or may not be related to this thing - report coming soon.OK I have seen two tweets on May 8 from two people in different places - one in Dao County in Hunan and another near Zhaotong in Yunnan - that reports that there will be a rocket launch in the next few days and that rocket debris will fall over their heads, so the local people are warned beforehand. The one from Yunnan went further and said that this is the first time that their place is being targeted as a drop zone (claimed to be the first stage). Both places lines up with the straight line that stretches from XSLC to the air closure zone indicated above.The strange thing is that the drop zone is a mere 400 km from the launch site, has never been flown before in such a direction, and is happening at night time (~9 pm local). Missile test? Or something else.....
A0523/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N272440E1062527-N270348E1061854 -N271521E1053214-N273614E1053838 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 13 MAY 12:47 2013 UNTIL 13 MAY 13:36 2013. CREATED: 12 MAY 11:34 2013
It's back, now on May 13QuoteA0523/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N272440E1062527-N270348E1061854 -N271521E1053214-N273614E1053838 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 13 MAY 12:47 2013 UNTIL 13 MAY 13:36 2013. CREATED: 12 MAY 11:34 2013
Quote from: input~2 on 05/12/2013 12:34 pmIt's back, now on May 13QuoteA0523/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY: N272440E1062527-N270348E1061854 -N271521E1053214-N273614E1053838 BACK TO START. VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL.ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY INTO THE AREA. SFC - UNL, 13 MAY 12:47 2013 UNTIL 13 MAY 13:36 2013. CREATED: 12 MAY 11:34 2013 People being chased off their houses right now.....It would be absolutely weird if a missile launch would require evacuating towns and villages in several different spots, but I have no explanation on what on earth is that thing being launched right now (doubt it's aimed towards orbit though).Expect UFO reports soon.....
Launched around 13:00 UTC - lots of observation reports ranging from Chengdu to Kunming, as well as UFOs from Chongqing all the way to Wuhan and Hainan island! Edit: Even more reports from places further downstream - including one in Fujian and at least 3 in Guangdong. Damn! I should have get out and look around if I can see the "purple comet tail" from Hong Kong....
I have to pose the question: if this launch is "Dongneng-2" then what was Dongneng-1? And what does this name translate as please?
Here is the official story, just another sounding rocket. However, if this is a sounding rocket, it is the most high profile sounding rocket I have ever seen.http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cas.ac.cn%2Fky%2Fkyjz%2F201305%2Ft20130514_3839206.shtml&act=url
I'd really like to not see any more ASAT tests, it's already been established that messes can be made, and each one makes things worse. If this is what the Chinese are doing... why?
So it don't into orbit ?any TLE ?
Quote from: Lar on 05/14/2013 12:56 amI'd really like to not see any more ASAT tests, it's already been established that messes can be made, and each one makes things worse. If this is what the Chinese are doing... why?Well.... they don't actually need to really aim at a real satellite even for ASAT testing (i.e. using a simulated target), so let's see if there's a new debris cloud forming in GTO/GEO over the next few days....
Also they got sounding rocket test on 5th of April, but from Hainan and not so spectacular... Also branch of Chinese Science Academy was involved.
A0297/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED: A CIRCLE CENTERED AT N181258E1093941 WITH RADIUS OF 10KM, VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC-UNL. GENERAL AVIATION ACFT (INCLUDE TRAINING FLY, PHYSICAL FLY, ENTERTAINMENT FLY AND ADVERTISEMENT FLY) ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY INTO THIS AREA. SFC - UNL, 05 APR 00:01 2013 UNTIL 08 APR 16:00 2013. CREATED: 02 APR 05:57 2013
Quote from: luhai167 on 05/14/2013 06:31 amHere is the official story, just another sounding rocket. However, if this is a sounding rocket, it is the most high profile sounding rocket I have ever seen.http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cas.ac.cn%2Fky%2Fkyjz%2F201305%2Ft20130514_3839206.shtml&act=urlThat would be one huge sounding rocket with extremely long range capabilities - they should have sold them back to the Americans and Europeans, for they would have good use of it at such a cheap price..... This is the worst cover-up story I have ever seen - which only add fuel to the speculation on what happened yesterday. I'm waiting for responses inside the Beltway....
Quote from: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/14/2013 06:44 amQuote from: luhai167 on 05/14/2013 06:31 amHere is the official story, just another sounding rocket. However, if this is a sounding rocket, it is the most high profile sounding rocket I have ever seen.http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cas.ac.cn%2Fky%2Fkyjz%2F201305%2Ft20130514_3839206.shtml&act=urlThat would be one huge sounding rocket with extremely long range capabilities - they should have sold them back to the Americans and Europeans, for they would have good use of it at such a cheap price..... This is the worst cover-up story I have ever seen - which only add fuel to the speculation on what happened yesterday. I'm waiting for responses inside the Beltway.... The interesting thing is that the science payload is reported to have included a barium release. Were there any observations of a red cloud reported?If you take the report at face value it could be something like one of the Soviet Vertikal' probes, or a US Blue Scout Junior, with thousands of km apogee rather than the usual few hundred km of typical sounding rockets.
Quote from: jcm on 05/14/2013 12:03 pmQuote from: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/14/2013 06:44 amQuote from: luhai167 on 05/14/2013 06:31 amHere is the official story, just another sounding rocket. However, if this is a sounding rocket, it is the most high profile sounding rocket I have ever seen.http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cas.ac.cn%2Fky%2Fkyjz%2F201305%2Ft20130514_3839206.shtml&act=urlThat would be one huge sounding rocket with extremely long range capabilities - they should have sold them back to the Americans and Europeans, for they would have good use of it at such a cheap price..... This is the worst cover-up story I have ever seen - which only add fuel to the speculation on what happened yesterday. I'm waiting for responses inside the Beltway.... The interesting thing is that the science payload is reported to have included a barium release. Were there any observations of a red cloud reported?If you take the report at face value it could be something like one of the Soviet Vertikal' probes, or a US Blue Scout Junior, with thousands of km apogee rather than the usual few hundred km of typical sounding rockets.I have seen hundreds of reports (and photos, although most of them are of rather poor) spread over more than a thousand miles apart yesterday, and "strangely" none of them reports a red cloud - all of them saw a comet like streak crossing the sky steadily for 1-2 minutes.Plus the last time they did such an experiment in early April the authorities issued warnings beforehand with indication that a sounding rocket launch was planned. Not this time.The rest of the story is left to the reader as an exercise.
Not impossible for both ideas to be true: trajectory test of a new launch vehicle variant with a science payload, but vehicle mainly intended to carry an ASAT in future.
Quote from: jcm on 05/14/2013 12:24 pmNot impossible for both ideas to be true: trajectory test of a new launch vehicle variant with a science payload, but vehicle mainly intended to carry an ASAT in future.Any ideas as to what rocket might be involved? There are some clues, such as the drop zone and final(?) stage burn-out seen well above the horizon at Hong Kong.
The release, if it occurred, might have been 20 minutes to an hour later depending on the apogee. Not impossible for both ideas to be true: trajectory test of a new launch vehicle variant with a science payload, but vehicle mainly intended to carry an ASAT in future.
http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2013/05-14/4817925.shtml
China once again high-altitude scientific exploration test: height higher data moreOn May 14, 2013 20:57 Source: China News (5) BEIJING, May 14 (Reporter Sun Zifa) reporter learned from the Chinese Academy of Sciences, National Space Science Center on the 14th, following the April 5, 2013, China successfully conducted for the first time sounding of the space environment and space science initiative test, May 13 and the success of a higher degree of high-altitude scientific exploration test.The pilot commander, GONG Jian village Fellow, National Space Science Center, deputy director of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, said the active test probe test compared to the space in Danzhou, Hainan on April 5 this year, at the altitude has been greatly increased by hundreds of kilometers to more than 10,000 kilometers; equipped with a more scientific instruments, data obtained relates to a wider range of space, the amount of data is more. Preliminary analysis indicates that the test has been obtained first-hand scientific data, the vertical distribution of different heights on the space environment parameters and space science research has a very important value.The trial, sounding rocket through the Earth's upper atmosphere and ionosphere, and finally into the magnetosphere. Sounding rocket carrying scientific instruments, space radiation in low latitudes with high-energy particles, ionospheric plasma and magnetic field distribution in situ detection. Sounding rocket released at the height of 10,000 km near the metal barium meal, barium cloud is formed in the space and ground-based optical telescope follow-up observations of the barium cloud evolution, measured to study the dynamic characteristics of this region of the magnetosphere data.It is reported that the space scientific experiments at the Xichang Satellite Launch Center, energetic particle detectors, Langmuir probe, magnetometer, the barium metal powder release device and other scientific instruments designed and developed by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, National Space Science Center, launch vehicles the Kunpeng VII "developed by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Group. (End)
Quote from: jcm on 05/14/2013 12:24 pmThe release, if it occurred, might have been 20 minutes to an hour later depending on the apogee. Not impossible for both ideas to be true: trajectory test of a new launch vehicle variant with a science payload, but vehicle mainly intended to carry an ASAT in future.Looks like you are indeed right! Those instruments did measure the magnetosphere and released solid barium at a height of over 10000 km (so at least there's a science payload hitchhiking)http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2013/05-14/4817925.shtmlHowever, the same news article exposed the real intent of the rocket :1. The altitude reached by the rocket is >10000 km; definitely beyond the range of all mainstream sounding rockets2. The rocket (claimed as "Kunpeng 7", although I am 100% sure that the name refers to the payload package and not the rocket) is built by CASIC (KT-1 derivative?)
It might be interesting to determine what was flying by in orbit around that time. - Ed Kyle
1976 Jun 18 1141 Scout D-1 S193C GP-A WI LA3A 10230 1963 Jul 30 1616:08 Blue Scout Jr 22-1/AD-622 AFCRL-1/21 (AD-622) CC LC18A 11100 1965 Mar 30 1609:31 Blue Scout Jr 22-4 (OAR Probe 4) AFCRL-35 CC LC18A 12067 1965 May 12 1602:35 Blue Scout Jr 22-8 (OAR Probe 6) AFCRL-335 CC LC18A 13586 1965 Jun 9 1626:15 Blue Scout Jr 22-5 (OAR Probe 7) AFWL-304 CC LC18A 17533 1965 Apr 9 1810:37 Blue Scout Jr 22-9 (OAR Probe 5) AWFL-14 CC LC18A 25422 1960 Sep 21 1301:53 Blue Scout Jr D-1 HETS CC LC18A 26700 1971 Sep 20 2331:00 Scout B S166C Barium Ion Cloud WI LA3A 31479 1961 Dec 4 0400:16 Blue Scout Jr O-2 HETS PA LC-A 44400 1961 Aug 17 1429 Blue Scout Jr O-1 HETS CC LC18A 225000
An interesting summary of data collected on this launch from blogger kktt:http://liuqiankktt.blog.163.com/blog/static/121264211201341422610261/(in Chinese)
Quote from: input~2 on 05/14/2013 07:57 pmAn interesting summary of data collected on this launch from blogger kktt:http://liuqiankktt.blog.163.com/blog/static/121264211201341422610261/(in Chinese)Highlights, please? Once upon a time I resolved to learn to read Chinese, but so far I haven't.
Damn, someone DID caught it in Hong Kong! (click the picture for animation) It looks all but certain that whatever was launched 3 hours ago is something top secret, as described by someone at Xichang: http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1614118
Ok, TLE2013-022C 1 39165U 13022C 13134.81968748 -.00000151 00000-0 00000+0 0 272 39165 49.5103 122.1512 5714712 354.1873 1.2137 4.42638024 07
Quote from: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/13/2013 03:55 pmDamn, someone DID caught it in Hong Kong! (click the picture for animation) It looks all but certain that whatever was launched 3 hours ago is something top secret, as described by someone at Xichang: http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1614118In my opinion, these images show a staging following immediately by the ignition of another stage. That stage burns for a short time and then appears to burn out. If this was viewed from Hong Kong, am I correct to surmise that the staging visible here would have to have been between, say, a second and a third stage? Would a pure "sounding rocket" have stages separating and starting like this?These all look like solid motor burns to my eyes. - Ed Kyle
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/15/us-china-launch-idUSBRE94E07D20130515From the above news source: this launch was identified by a Harvard professor as a scientific exploration.
For the record here is a link for the Washington Free Beacon articlehttp://freebeacon.com/china-conducts-test-of-new-anti-satellite-missile/The author leans in favor of a DongNeng-2 (动能-2) test.
Quote from: input~2 on 05/15/2013 01:26 pmFor the record here is a link for the Washington Free Beacon articlehttp://freebeacon.com/china-conducts-test-of-new-anti-satellite-missile/The author leans in favor of a DongNeng-2 (动能-2) test.What's not clear to me: - What is a Dong Neng 2? (what is the difference between a DN-2 and a DF-31 for instance?)- Is Dong Neng 2 actually a Chinese designation, has it appeared in Chinese public sources? I've only seen it mentioned in US sources (also DN-1 for that matter). Or is it one of those fake designations that the US intelligence community sometimes slaps on things (like Taepodong)
http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1348649-1-1.htmlOriginal:我国的中段导弹拦截系统主要负责大气层外,对导弹飞行的中段进行拦截,这个系统大致包括陆基地井发射的动能-1号(DN-1)先进拦截弹,性能大致类似与美国的GMD大气层外拦截弹。除动能-1...Google Translate:Midcourse missile interception system in China is mainly responsible for the atmosphere, in the middle of the missile to intercept, the system generally includes the kinetic energy of the land base for silo launchers -1 (DN-1) advanced interceptor missile, performance is substantially similar to GMD outside the atmosphere with the United States interceptor missile. In addition to the kinetic energy -1...
Quote from: jcm on 05/15/2013 02:16 pmQuote from: input~2 on 05/15/2013 01:26 pmFor the record here is a link for the Washington Free Beacon articlehttp://freebeacon.com/china-conducts-test-of-new-anti-satellite-missile/The author leans in favor of a DongNeng-2 (动能-2) test.What's not clear to me: - What is a Dong Neng 2? (what is the difference between a DN-2 and a DF-31 for instance?)- Is Dong Neng 2 actually a Chinese designation, has it appeared in Chinese public sources? I've only seen it mentioned in US sources (also DN-1 for that matter). Or is it one of those fake designations that the US intelligence community sometimes slaps on things (like Taepodong)The DN designator apparently refers to "kinetic energy" (动能) and is not typical of US/WSSIC "facility designators" -- so I think it actually may be a Chinese designator. Whether it's official or just descriptive I couldn't say. FWIW,Quotehttp://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1348649-1-1.htmlOriginal:我国的中段导弹拦截系统主要负责大气层外,对导弹飞行的中段进行拦截,这个系统大致包括陆基地井发射的动能-1号(DN-1)先进拦截弹,性能大致类似与美国的GMD大气层外拦截弹。除动能-1...Google Translate:Midcourse missile interception system in China is mainly responsible for the atmosphere, in the middle of the missile to intercept, the system generally includes the kinetic energy of the land base for silo launchers -1 (DN-1) advanced interceptor missile, performance is substantially similar to GMD outside the atmosphere with the United States interceptor missile. In addition to the kinetic energy -1...
"We detected a launch on May 13 from within China. The launch appeared to be on a ballistic trajectory nearly to geosynchronous Earth orbit. We tracked several objects during the flight but did not observe the insertion of any objects into orbit and no objects associated with this launch remain in space.
Quote from: jcm on 05/16/2013 04:44 am"We detected a launch on May 13 from within China. The launch appeared to be on a ballistic trajectory nearly to geosynchronous Earth orbit. We tracked several objects during the flight but did not observe the insertion of any objects into orbit and no objects associated with this launch remain in space.2 more quotes of the same Pentagon spokeswoman declaration:http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2013/May%202013/May%2016%202013/Chinese-Anti-Satellite-Test.aspxhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/15/us-china-launch-idUSBRE94E07D20130515
Here is a sample pseudo-TLE that attempts to capture such a path - very much not a unique solution1R61335U 13S33 13133.54200000 0.00000000 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 142R61335 31.9247 47.1509 8564868 16.7538 7.4862 2.89773317 1
Quote from: jcm on 05/16/2013 02:28 amHere is a sample pseudo-TLE that attempts to capture such a path - very much not a unique solution1R61335U 13S33 13133.54200000 0.00000000 +00000-0 +00000-0 0 142R61335 31.9247 47.1509 8564868 16.7538 7.4862 2.89773317 1This set would imply an apogee of about 32200 km
Jonathan: here is a Xin Hua report quoting your views:http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2013-05/17/c_124725806.htm (in Chinese)
Just one quick question why is this being described as a 'sounding rocket', it's clearly more than that, reading this thread it was clearly a staged vehicle so the use of the term 'sounding rocket' seems wrong to me?
Quote from: input~2 on 05/17/2013 04:50 pmJonathan: here is a Xin Hua report quoting your views:http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2013-05/17/c_124725806.htm (in Chinese)Welcome to the club, Jonathan :-)
Quote from: Star One on 05/17/2013 08:49 pmJust one quick question why is this being described as a 'sounding rocket', it's clearly more than that, reading this thread it was clearly a staged vehicle so the use of the term 'sounding rocket' seems wrong to me?Sounding rockets can also be (and are often) multi stage vehicles.
Quote from: Skyrocket on 05/17/2013 09:51 pmQuote from: Star One on 05/17/2013 08:49 pmJust one quick question why is this being described as a 'sounding rocket', it's clearly more than that, reading this thread it was clearly a staged vehicle so the use of the term 'sounding rocket' seems wrong to me?Sounding rockets can also be (and are often) multi stage vehicles.I agree. In general 'sounding rocket' has historically been broadly used for any suborbital vehicle for scientific, technology test or other vaguely research oriented purpose. Early sounding rockets included four and five stage vehicles like Strongarm. The Oriole XII is a 4 stage rocket. As often in English we can distinguish multiple meanings of the phrase.1) Sounding rocket, n. : (type of rocket flight) a rocket launched on a suborbital trajectory with a research payload. Distinguished from a missile test or satellite launch. Sometimes includes meteorological rockets.2) Sounding rocket, n.: (type of rocket vehicle) - a rocket vehicle used mainly for sounding launches, i.e. suborbital research launches. Usually composed of smaller diameter stages than a satellite launch vehicle or long range ballistic missile. But there have been satellite launch vehicles like Lambda-4S that were physically like sounding rockets.
A new launch area at XSLC suitable for mobile launchers is visible south east of launch pad 2 and 3. It seems to be built between 2011 and 2012. The attached image was taken on May 21 2013 and can be seen at Google Earth when activating historical images. Note the vehicle tracks.
Quote from: limen4 on 10/19/2013 07:38 pmA new launch area at XSLC suitable for mobile launchers is visible south east of launch pad 2 and 3. It seems to be built between 2011 and 2012. The attached image was taken on May 21 2013 and can be seen at Google Earth when activating historical images. Note the vehicle tracks.I wonder why they would need to create this when a mobile launcher pad already existed at the north end of the site? It is interesting that the original mobile pad seems to look somewhat derelict in recent images, with "stuff" kind of piling up there, bone yard fashion. - Ed Kyle