Author Topic: Elon The Boring Company  (Read 1626528 times)

Offline nacnud

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #640 on: 10/21/2017 11:09 pm »
It does feel a little like the railway gauge war in the 1840s.

Offline Oersted

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #641 on: 10/21/2017 11:16 pm »
Another interesting historical parallel to the electric skates running off a power strip in the tunnel floor are the pneumatic railroad experiments of that same era.

Offline Ludus

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #642 on: 10/22/2017 03:19 am »

Online oiorionsbelt

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #643 on: 10/22/2017 04:04 am »
Some of the competition for Baltimore-DC.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/18/baltimore-dc-maglev-train-costs


Like ULA bidding against SpaceX

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #644 on: 10/22/2017 08:18 am »
My reason for doubting it is that no-one has made a working hyperloop yet (and those closest are third-party companies), whereas an electric skate seems a straightforward application of current technology - well within the capability of Tesla engineers. The Boring Company is interested in developing tunneling technology, not transportation, and this seems a nice way of making initial experiments pay for themselves.

There's no reason why TBC couldn't hire Hyperloop One to install a hyperloop track in the tunnel.  HLO has made a working hyperloop, albeit not yet one that can carry people.

So, nobody's made a working hyperloop - if by 'working' one means (as I meant) 'capable of operational passenger-carrying use'! I have no doubt that someone will make a working (in that sense) hyperloop eventually. But eventually is an elastic concept and I suspect that Elon would rather have something that works - and brings in income - now.

I suspect the underlying reason for Elon setting up TBC is to develop tunneling technology for use on Mars. But that sounds whacko to most people. Much better to say it's to develop technology for use on Earth; relieving congestion etc. That they can understand. And such understanding is important because the development has to be paid for, which requires outside investors, which itself requires a business case. (Also, the cost of developing technology for use on Earth can be spread over far more projects.)

I don't see TBC as a transportation operating company. It's not likely to hire a hyperloop company to install hyperloop track in any tunnels it digs; rather it will sell such tunnels to the hyperloop company, or just be hired to dig them. It may have to build out the first project to retire risk and to prove the concept to investors, but I imagine it will eventually sell it on.

Offline Callezetter

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #645 on: 10/22/2017 09:08 am »
The thing that amazes me most about this Baltimore-Washington project is that they are just going to start digging the tunnel without a multi-billion dollar contract. Who will own the tunnel? How is this going to connect to the existing transportation infrastructure?

The thing is, if they end up providing a transportation link of whatever type that reduces surface traffic and eases the commute, which under a normal contracting process would cost billions, and do it for even a few hundred million (an order of magnitude cheaper) that would be a greater revolition in transportation than just having a hyper loop or electric sleds.

I love this aproach. Elon is is basically making holes. The value for him is not in the holes he makes, but in the knowledge he gets from making them. So he can make them for free, or for a very low cost and let the cities use them for whatever they want, with a huge value for them. I see lots of broad purpose holes beeing made the coming years for all kinds of things.
« Last Edit: 10/22/2017 09:11 am by Callezetter »

Offline Jcc

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #646 on: 10/22/2017 02:30 pm »
We don't know what type of transportation is envisaged for the tunnel, but to me the most effective would be hyper loop that connects from Baltimores light rail to the Washington Metro system, ideally to a hub so as not to over saturate a particular rail line. The connection might be the most complicated part, but it would be so obviously worth it and cost effective that government funding to do it will be provided.

Offline philw1776

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #647 on: 10/22/2017 03:57 pm »
We don't know what type of transportation is envisaged for the tunnel, but to me the most effective would be hyper loop that connects from Baltimores light rail to the Washington Metro system, ideally to a hub so as not to over saturate a particular rail line. The connection might be the most complicated part, but it would be so obviously worth it and cost effective that government funding to do it will be provided.

Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.
FULL SEND!!!!

Offline Jcc

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #648 on: 10/22/2017 07:12 pm »
We don't know what type of transportation is envisaged for the tunnel, but to me the most effective would be hyper loop that connects from Baltimores light rail to the Washington Metro system, ideally to a hub so as not to over saturate a particular rail line. The connection might be the most complicated part, but it would be so obviously worth it and cost effective that government funding to do it will be provided.

Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.

Good question! To me the answer is that it would enable moving the greatest number of people and produce the greatest benefit in reducing surface car traffic within the city as well as between cities. It would also be a proof of the technology, and promote interest in completing hyper loop to New York.

But, it could be sleds for cars, that would serve people who want/need to drive to their final destination.

Offline meekGee

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #649 on: 10/22/2017 07:40 pm »
We don't know what type of transportation is envisaged for the tunnel, but to me the most effective would be hyper loop that connects from Baltimores light rail to the Washington Metro system, ideally to a hub so as not to over saturate a particular rail line. The connection might be the most complicated part, but it would be so obviously worth it and cost effective that government funding to do it will be provided.

Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.

Good question! To me the answer is that it would enable moving the greatest number of people and produce the greatest benefit in reducing surface car traffic within the city as well as between cities. It would also be a proof of the technology, and promote interest in completing hyper loop to New York.

But, it could be sleds for cars, that would serve people who want/need to drive to their final destination.

I think you need to consider that throughput != latency.

In fact because of the complexity of the vacuum and high speed motion, Hyperloop throughput will probably be lower than a skate-based tunnel.


ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Cheapchips

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #650 on: 10/22/2017 08:49 pm »
The original hyperloop proposal had parallel capsule loading to sustain capsule throughput. You'd always have a capsule ready to whack into the airlock.

Offline Ludus

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #651 on: 10/22/2017 08:59 pm »
We don't know what type of transportation is envisaged for the tunnel, but to me the most effective would be hyper loop that connects from Baltimores light rail to the Washington Metro system, ideally to a hub so as not to over saturate a particular rail line. The connection might be the most complicated part, but it would be so obviously worth it and cost effective that government funding to do it will be provided.

Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.

I agree.

The electric skates at 110 mph would cover the route in about 20 minutes. If the route follows existing road right of way it wouldn’t be very suited to full speed hyperloop, though it could be converted later and complete the route at 400 mph in 5 minutes.

Electric skates built by Tesla would be a much cheaper, simpler use up front alternative. Tesla might have it’s autonomous Urban Transport ready by the time it’s complete. That would pick up up passengers around the central city streets and have them at their destination in the other city within half an hour, with 20 minutes of that spent in the tunnel at 110 mph.
« Last Edit: 10/22/2017 09:17 pm by Ludus »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #652 on: 10/22/2017 09:08 pm »
Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.

But then you wouldn't have the hyperloop technology.

Why is it such an effort to believe Musk and local officials that he is building a hyperloop?

Offline mme

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #653 on: 10/22/2017 09:19 pm »
Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.

But then you wouldn't have the hyperloop technology.

Why is it such an effort to believe Musk and local officials that he is building a hyperloop?
In general I try to take people fairly literally. But you have to realize how common it is for people to misuse terminology.  I don't think Musk has made many statements on this project other than getting approval to get boring.  Also, go browse TBC's website. It's all about cars on skates and people movers. Remember this?
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Ludus

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #654 on: 10/22/2017 09:26 pm »
Why hyperloop for such a short run?  No real advantage from its speed and complexity plus high risk and high up front installation cost vs simple electric sleds moving cars in 10 or so minutes.  SpaceX usually takes the simple, direct solution.  Boring Company shares the engineering/management DNA.

But then you wouldn't have the hyperloop technology.

Why is it such an effort to believe Musk and local officials that he is building a hyperloop?

If they said it, I’d believe it. I do think it’s the shortest, easiest segment of the the NYC to DC Hyperloop that was mentioned. It’s just a matter of whether there’s a intention to bother trying to solve all the much greater problems of opening this segment as a Hyperloop up front.

TBC is in the tunneling biz for both Hyperloop and Skate tunnels and AFAIK they are very similar from the TBC’s pov. A Skate tunnel could later be repurposed for Hyperloop when the Philly-Baltimore stretch was completed and Hyperloop hardware was more mature. In the meantime it would be serving an important function.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #655 on: 10/22/2017 10:08 pm »
In general I try to take people fairly literally. But you have to realize how common it is for people to misuse terminology.

I don't know how Musk could have been any clearer.

Quote from: Elon Musk
Just received verbal govt approval for The Boring Company to build an underground NY-Phil-Balt-DC Hyperloop. NY-DC in 29 mins.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888053175155949572

Quote
For sure. First set of tunnels are to alleviate greater LA urban congestion. Will start NY-DC in parallel. Then prob LA-SF and a TX loop.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/888059982586839041

Offline DOCinCT

Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #656 on: 10/22/2017 10:20 pm »
We don't know what type of transportation is envisaged for the tunnel, but to me the most effective would be hyper loop that connects from Baltimores light rail to the Washington Metro system, ideally to a hub so as not to over saturate a particular rail line. The connection might be the most complicated part, but it would be so obviously worth it and cost effective that government funding to do it will be provided.
I like to think of it as an alternative to dedicated bus ways or light rail (as in trolley) using electric people mover pods (dedicated skates). Immune to weather, traffic, crossing etc. etc.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #657 on: 10/23/2017 01:26 am »
Any information on the Hawthorne boring? Wondering if they're going to connect to the docks...
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #658 on: 10/23/2017 02:25 am »
Any information on the Hawthorne boring? Wondering if they're going to connect to the docks...

The last document I saw on NSF that was from the city of Hawthorne showed the tunnel only running down below W 120th Street and terminating at an existing parking lot along 120th.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Reply #659 on: 10/23/2017 02:39 am »
boring ;)
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

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