Author Topic: What's Happening at Bigelow?  (Read 421885 times)

Offline bad_astra

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #180 on: 04/07/2010 07:11 pm »
The problem is that it wouldn't be a closed environment. You'd have several vector points exchanging as crew arrive or leave. Bio systems may well supplant mechanical lief support, but I doubt it any time soon, and even then not without a mechcanical backup. We're not close to being there.
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Online Chandonn

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #181 on: 04/07/2010 08:19 pm »
Is it just me or is this getting increasingly off-topic?  What does Bigelow have to do with Biosphere 2?  Can we get back on topic and maybe move the regen life support discussion to a more appropriate thread?

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #182 on: 04/07/2010 08:34 pm »
Thanks to someone alerting the thread. Keep it on topic.
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #183 on: 04/07/2010 08:45 pm »
Sci-fi. Want a better idea of actual size? Look at Bio-Dome 2. That supported, what? Six people? Anyone know?
Arguably, Biosphere-2 didn't demonstrate that it could successfully support any number. However, it's not really a good example, they were trying to build an entire ecosystem that replicated a bunch of natural environments (a fundamentally misguided approach for a first attempt, IMO), not optimize for size/efficiency.  You could build much more compact systems if your goal is only to close specific portions of an ECLS loops. Advances in bioengineering may help this considerably.

The Russians did some work that was much more closely applicable to spacecraft. I think there was a thread about this a while back, but a quick search didn't turn it up.

That said, I'm not sure such systems will be more reliable/lower maintenance than conventional ones, at least not at scales we can contemplate now. Keeping living things healthy in a closed environment can be at least as tricky as keeping machines healthy.



You mean the BIOS-3 experiment.
BIOS ironically is about the size of a Bigelow module.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS-3

It was more inline with what would be seen on a near term spacecraft as it tried to be mostly closed loop vs attempting to be 100% closed.
Bigelow's first station is to consist of one Sundancer ,a combined docking node and propulsion unit, and two or three BA-330s.


« Last Edit: 04/07/2010 08:55 pm by Patchouli »

Offline telomerase99

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #184 on: 04/08/2010 04:45 am »
I'd have to fundamentally disagree with the contention that my comment was off topic given that it was in direct reply to an interview that Bigelows Gold discussed utilization of the BA modules for biological research.

If you watch the interview Gold clearly has no "f" ing idea what he is talking about. Im a physician and i know a little bit about biotech and his comments make no sense whatsoever.

However, given the interview that was immediately posted where he talks about bioresearch I don't understand why I can't bring up closed loop biological life support as a potential realistic application for BA modules.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #185 on: 04/09/2010 03:19 am »

However, given the interview that was immediately posted where he talks about bioresearch I don't understand why I can't bring up closed loop biological life support as a potential realistic application for BA modules.

Unless Bigelow are doing it as a standard part of their spacestations closed loop biological life support would logically belong in its own thread in the the 'Advanced Concepts' section.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #186 on: 04/09/2010 06:10 am »
Isn't ORBITEC doing Bigelow's environmental controls?

http://www.orbitec.com/documents/ORBITEC_Bigelow_PressRelease_21Jan2010.pdf

Quote
>
ORBITEC is partnering with Bigelow Aerospace’s technical staff to develop systems for pressure control, oxygen production and supply, hydrogen supply, temperature and humidity control, ventilation, thermal transport, water processing, gas contaminant removal, carbon dioxide removal, and atmospheric composition monitoring.
>
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Offline Nathan

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #187 on: 04/09/2010 11:55 am »
The link below suggests seven assembly flights for the sundancer module

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/04/08/space-access-10-jeff-patton-united-launch-alliance/#more-13422

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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #188 on: 04/09/2010 02:28 pm »
The link below suggests seven assembly flights for the sundancer module

A very brief comment and one that is very unclear.  Are they talking seven missions to outfit a single Sundancer module, or are they talking about seven launches to assemble a multi-module complex?

If it is the former, then Bigelow better have a very big seed fund to cover his start-up costs because having to fly seven missions (likely two years) before he can start flying customers up to the module would be an enormous drain on capital.

FWIW, I suspect it is the latter and possibly may refer to the 3 x Sundancer space station concept I have seen illustrated on this very forum.  If so, we are looking at three module launches, plus four outfitting flights (at least crewed ones; I suspect you would need the same again in cargo launches to carry heavier items for installation in and on the complex).  If I'm right, that compares favorably with what is needed for rigid-hulled space stations like Mir and ISS.
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Offline Pittsburgh

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #189 on: 04/09/2010 02:47 pm »
The more interesting thing in the Patton article is the planned launch of a second space station (or 4th, if you count the two up there already) in 2016.

"He reviewed Bigelow’s schedule, which begins in 2014 with seven assembly launches for its Sundancer space station. The flight rate goes up to 20 launches per year when the company launches its second station in 2106. Patton said that NASA’s commercial crew program would serve as a basis under which ULA could offer the same service to Bigelow, creating economies of scale that would make it profitable for ULA."

If all of this business is going in ULA's direction, I also wonder if the Bigelow line on SpaceX's manifest is going to vanish at some point.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #190 on: 04/09/2010 03:49 pm »
I expect money to go toward SpaceX once they launch and successfully recover a Dragon capsule (i.e. within a year).

Wow, 20 launches a year is a lot. I hope they get to that point. It will be good for everyone.
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Offline 8900

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #191 on: 04/09/2010 04:13 pm »
The link below suggests seven assembly flights for the sundancer module

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/04/08/space-access-10-jeff-patton-united-launch-alliance/#more-13422
The flight rate goes up to 20 launches per year when the company launches its second station in 2106
 :o lol
2106...definitely a typo there
and sundancer is one single module, you can't seperate it and launch it on 7 launches (and not necessary)

Offline Freddie

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #192 on: 04/10/2010 03:37 pm »


A news article titled "Bigelow Aerospace eyes Wallops for rocket launches" can be read at http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-local_bigelow-wallops_0410apr10,0,6055990.story.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #193 on: 04/10/2010 06:06 pm »
Quote
Some of its operations, such as Atlas V, could shift to Wallops, Gold said. Such a move could create hundreds of high-paying jobs on the Eastern Shore.


This article doesn't make much sense, I dont think the reporter grasps the facts that well.  There is not any way Atlas V would be launched from Wallops, way too expensive compared to simply using existing infrastructure at LC-41.

Offline Norm Hartnett

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #194 on: 04/10/2010 06:13 pm »
Is Bigelow considering the Taurus II?

« Last Edit: 04/11/2010 04:23 am by Norm Hartnett »
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Offline coach

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #195 on: 04/15/2010 03:01 pm »
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/private-moon-bases-bigelow-aerospace-100414.html

RB's planning some jumbo inflatables...

"Bigelow Aerospace envisions expandable habitats offering 2,100 cubic meters of volume — nearly twice the capacity available on the International Space Station — while another plan sketches out use of a super-jumbo structure providing 3,240 cubic meters of volume."

Coach

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #196 on: 04/15/2010 03:15 pm »
All very interesting, hypothetically speaking but utterly pointless so long as there isn't a crew transfer system to get people there.  Of course, that could sum up Bigelow's entire product line, really. :-\
« Last Edit: 04/15/2010 03:16 pm by Ben the Space Brit »
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Offline neilh

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #197 on: 04/15/2010 06:30 pm »
All very interesting, hypothetically speaking but utterly pointless so long as there isn't a crew transfer system to get people there.  Of course, that could sum up Bigelow's entire product line, really. :-\

It's an interesting chicken-and-egg problem.
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Offline 8900

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #198 on: 04/20/2010 03:43 pm »
All very interesting, hypothetically speaking but utterly pointless so long as there isn't a crew transfer system to get people there.  Of course, that could sum up Bigelow's entire product line, really. :-\

It's an interesting chicken-and-egg problem.
we still don't have any way to get people up there (bigelow space station)

Offline Garrett

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Re: What's Happening at Bigelow?
« Reply #199 on: 04/21/2010 09:21 pm »
All very interesting, hypothetically speaking but utterly pointless so long as there isn't a crew transfer system to get people there.  Of course, that could sum up Bigelow's entire product line, really. :-\

It's an interesting chicken-and-egg problem.

Just nitpicking: not sure that analogy is well suited to the situation.
Maybe more like the cart before the horse/donkey?

Or maybe in the future people will just say that something is "an interesting space station-and-spaceship problem"  :P
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