Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2012 08:27 pmI don't see why people are so against chemical propulsion… It clearly isn't about the cost of fuel. And we certainly use similar fuels every day and to fly aroUnd the world. What's wrong with chemical?...So why the hate of chemical? The problem is the throwing away of the vehicle, not what propellant it uses (directly).I see SpaceX attempts to recover stages. They are doing exciting stuff, it might just cut price per Kg, but as a rule of engineering, KISS! Portuguese Kings would send 2-3 ships to explore new lands in the 15th and 16th century. One year after, the expedition would have 17-30 ships! 30 years after, a steady stream of colonist would follow. This was only possible after a technological breakthrough: upwind sailing. Sure, sailing had been around for millennial, but it took a propulsion change to make it happen.
I don't see why people are so against chemical propulsion… It clearly isn't about the cost of fuel. And we certainly use similar fuels every day and to fly aroUnd the world. What's wrong with chemical?...So why the hate of chemical? The problem is the throwing away of the vehicle, not what propellant it uses (directly).
Quote from: JohnFornaro on 09/10/2012 11:00 pmWell, I see what you're saying in part. "We came for the gold and spices, but we stayed because of the natives and the beautiful beaches!"...Don't get the silly part, still. Without further clarification, MSL must be considered "silly", given the hunger, ignorance and poverty back home.Then let me offer you this "We shall go to the moon/mars/uranus for the natives and beautiful beaches!". Good luck getting widespread support.
Well, I see what you're saying in part. "We came for the gold and spices, but we stayed because of the natives and the beautiful beaches!"...Don't get the silly part, still. Without further clarification, MSL must be considered "silly", given the hunger, ignorance and poverty back home.
Don't underestimate the potential of the tourism market. If you manage to bring the tickets at reasonable prices, you will have troubles meeting the demand!
Quote from: thydusk666 on 09/10/2012 11:59 pmDon't underestimate the potential of the tourism market. If you manage to bring the tickets at reasonable prices, you will have troubles meeting the demand!Yes, colonizing moon with tourists is an entirely viable plan. Just don't tell them in the travel brochure.
Quote from: JohnFornaro on 09/10/2012 11:00 pmWell, I see what you're saying in part. "We came for the gold and spices, but we stayed because of the natives and the beautiful beaches!"...Don't get the silly part, still. Without further clarification, MSL must be considered "silly", given the hunger, ignorance and poverty back home.C'mon. No one's saying that about the natives....Then let me offer you this "We shall go to the moon/mars/uranus for the natives and beautiful beaches!". Good luck getting widespread support.
But once you have a constant flow of tourists (hundreds to thousands/year), with infrastructure and industry built around it, then you will begin to have permanent staff working there.
Quote from: IRobot on 09/10/2012 09:21 pmThis was only possible after a technological breakthrough: upwind sailing. Sure, sailing had been around for millennial, but it took a propulsion change to make it happen.Huh ? Viking ships were able to sail upwind. Nevertheless, Leif Ericson's name is not widely recognized.
This was only possible after a technological breakthrough: upwind sailing. Sure, sailing had been around for millennial, but it took a propulsion change to make it happen.
A failed colony is one that people go somewhere, live for some time, then stop living there.It seems to me, that ISS is a colony
Quote from: thydusk666 on 09/11/2012 12:21 amBut once you have a constant flow of tourists (hundreds to thousands/year), with infrastructure and industry built around it, then you will begin to have permanent staff working there.Which is actually exactly the point i made above. Substitute tourism for mining ops, or any other activity that man might find useful or profitable at large in space, and some sort of settlement is likely to be a byproduct of that.
I'm not sure i can clarify much better, but to restate that humans have colonized a lot, but rarely, if ever, with explicit stated intent of doing so.
Colonization, interesting concept… "So we talking of taking an inhabitable world and make it a habitable one and meanwhile taking a habitable one, Earth and do our best to make it inhabitable." Perhaps we are the wrong species to consider propagating ourselves on other worlds…
ISS is a space based laboratory.
Quote from: savuporo on 09/10/2012 09:50 pmQuote from: IRobot on 09/10/2012 09:21 pmThis was only possible after a technological breakthrough: upwind sailing. Sure, sailing had been around for millennial, but it took a propulsion change to make it happen.Huh ? Viking ships were able to sail upwind. Nevertheless, Leif Ericson's name is not widely recognized. Viking ships had square rig, it can't sail upwind. But they could row....
Quote from: IRobot on 09/11/2012 09:45 amQuote from: savuporo on 09/10/2012 09:50 pmQuote from: IRobot on 09/10/2012 09:21 pmThis was only possible after a technological breakthrough: upwind sailing. Sure, sailing had been around for millennial, but it took a propulsion change to make it happen.Huh ? Viking ships were able to sail upwind. Nevertheless, Leif Ericson's name is not widely recognized. Viking ships had square rig, it can't sail upwind. But they could row....No, they could also sail slightly upwind.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/11/2012 02:18 pmQuote from: IRobot on 09/11/2012 09:45 amQuote from: savuporo on 09/10/2012 09:50 pmQuote from: IRobot on 09/10/2012 09:21 pmThis was only possible after a technological breakthrough: upwind sailing. Sure, sailing had been around for millennial, but it took a propulsion change to make it happen.Huh ? Viking ships were able to sail upwind. Nevertheless, Leif Ericson's name is not widely recognized. Viking ships had square rig, it can't sail upwind. But they could row....No, they could also sail slightly upwind.Actually pretty well. I happened to be on a replica one two weeks ago. And square rigging has an impact, but does not prevent sailing upwind. Upwind sailing ( and fore-and-aft rigging by the way ) has been around for ages, it wasn't "invented" in europe in 15th century. Portugese carracks were not a "fundamental technological breakthrough in propulsion"EDIT: and sorry, this is wildly off topic.
Colonization, interesting concept… “So we talking of taking an inhabitable world and make it a habitable one and meanwhile taking a habitable one, Earth and do our best to make it inhabitable.” Perhaps we are the wrong species to consider propagating ourselves on other worlds…