The Trump administration is elevating the role of the privately funded space industry in advancing the nation’s interests as competitors like Russia and China seek to challenge the United States and its free rein in space.In the 2017 National Security Strategy released Dec. 18, the president commits the U.S. government to partnering with private industry to explore space and defend U.S. assets there. The administration also promises to help defend private space systems from hostile attacks.The strategy makes the promotion of space commerce a national security priority. In that vein, the administration intends to overhaul industry regulations to motivate companies to invest and innovate. “The United States will simplify and update regulations for commercial space activity to strengthen competitiveness,” says the document.
This is clearly the direction USAF think tanks, the National Space Council including the VP, and the Administrator nominee are all heading. Walking the walk is harder than talking the talk.
Quote from: AncientU on 12/18/2017 08:15 pmThis is clearly the direction USAF think tanks, the National Space Council including the VP, and the Administrator nominee are all heading. Walking the walk is harder than talking the talk.Well the language used could be summed up under the term “that’s fighting talk”.
I don’t think there’s anything that surprising in all of this considering the administration’s past statements in the area. Though we haven’t seen this kind of language used before in terms of being combined with commercial space and national security.QuoteThe administration also promises to help defend private space systems from hostile attacks.
The administration also promises to help defend private space systems from hostile attacks.
It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...
Quote from: Rocket Science on 12/19/2017 01:33 pmIt's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...What justification do you have for that statement?
Quote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 05:50 amQuote from: Rocket Science on 12/19/2017 01:33 pmIt's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...What justification do you have for that statement?It is his or her opinion. You don't have to agree with it. However, I think many in the US that have personal experience with our system might well agree, based on how things have went in the past, that it's a likely outcome..
Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.
Quote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 03:49 pmPoor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.
Quote from: Lar on 12/20/2017 03:59 pmQuote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 03:49 pmPoor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.I’d argue that the discontinuity this time is so called new space. No longer do the old boys have the playing field to themselves. I’d certainly like to see them giving a fair chance.
Quote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 04:02 pmQuote from: Lar on 12/20/2017 03:59 pmQuote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 03:49 pmPoor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.I’d argue that the discontinuity this time is so called new space. No longer do the old boys have the playing field to themselves. I’d certainly like to see them giving a fair chance.I agree that it COULD be a discontinuity but there are people actively campaigning (where it matters, on K street and in the waiting rooms of Congress) to make it not be so, to continue with the high cost, high pork approach. They are not friends of NewSpace.I think the best hope is that NewSpace just goes off and does things... things so astonishingly broad, and cheap, and effective, and fast, that these lobbyists can't counter them and we see that discontinuity. But I place the odds as less than 50/50, sadly. So much could go wrong.
You fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?
Quote from: Lar on 12/20/2017 03:59 pmQuote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 03:49 pmPoor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.All this back and forth aside, evidence as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data. And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)
Quote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 07:05 pmYou fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?You know it, brother. Quote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/20/2017 07:29 pmQuote from: Lar on 12/20/2017 03:59 pmQuote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 03:49 pmPoor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.All this back and forth aside, evidence as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data. And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)My default response when some political hack, ( or wannabe hack, whichever ), says "things will be different this time"? ... "prove it" ... the onus is on them to prove that the status quo ante isn't projecting forward as per usual.My second response? Checking my wallet to make sure it hasn't been pilfered.That's enough of that. Maybe talk about tangible things we could see happen that would demonstrate that this isn't just talk, and that there is a plan to overcome the high powered lobbyists of the MIC and change things.
Quote from: Lar on 12/20/2017 07:36 pmQuote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 07:05 pmYou fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?You know it, brother. Quote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/20/2017 07:29 pmQuote from: Lar on 12/20/2017 03:59 pmQuote from: Star One on 12/20/2017 03:49 pmPoor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesn’t guarantee a future one.Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.All this back and forth aside, evidence as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data. And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)My default response when some political hack, ( or wannabe hack, whichever ), says "things will be different this time"? ... "prove it" ... the onus is on them to prove that the status quo ante isn't projecting forward as per usual.My second response? Checking my wallet to make sure it hasn't been pilfered.That's enough of that. Maybe talk about tangible things we could see happen that would demonstrate that this isn't just talk, and that there is a plan to overcome the high powered lobbyists of the MIC and change things.That's fine and dandy, but it does return us to the original point....Quote from: Rocket Science on 12/19/2017 01:33 pmIt's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...I would like to hear some evidence
Quote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/20/2017 07:50 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 12/19/2017 01:33 pmIt's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...I would like to hear some evidenceI would like to see some proof that it won't be...
Quote from: Rocket Science on 12/19/2017 01:33 pmIt's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...I would like to hear some evidence
I agree that it COULD be a discontinuity but there are people actively campaigning (where it matters, on K street and in the waiting rooms of Congress) to make it not be so, to continue with the high cost, high pork approach. They are not friends of NewSpace.
I think the best hope is that NewSpace just goes off and does things... things so astonishingly broad, and cheap, and effective, and fast, that these lobbyists can't counter them and we see that discontinuity. But I place the odds as less than 50/50, sadly.
So much could go wrong.
Sure, someone can say "well, Washington is corrupt"...
This is something that is incredibly reasonable. Why not empower the private sector in the space industry? The innovation of the American people is one of our biggest, if not the biggest, strength we as America have. The private sector is much more agile and innovative. It is a clear advantage to the United States to engage the private sector in the expanding space industry.
Quote from: Tea Party Space Czar on 12/20/2017 09:28 pmThis is something that is incredibly reasonable. Why not empower the private sector in the space industry? The innovation of the American people is one of our biggest, if not the biggest, strength we as America have. The private sector is much more agile and innovative. It is a clear advantage to the United States to engage the private sector in the expanding space industry.Emphasis mine.Great idea Andrew. But as long as US Congress holds the purse strings, and those purse strings provide highly-paid jobs to ~100,000 US citizens, it is unlikely that the private sector will be empowered to the level required.Because when such empowerment actually would occur some 80% of those ~100,000 US citizens will lose their jobs.It really is all about bringing home the bacon and US Congress folks making damn sure they can stay put in their well-padded chairs on Capitol Hill.
I am sorry, but the world can change with Congress, and it does every 2 years, and if you are a US citizen and you aren't happy, then IMHO, you have no one to blame but yourself.
And there are LOTS of ways to get your voice to congress, and a lot of Space citizen lobbying activities out there.
Yes, there are entrenched interests. But you can also over come them. There are many examples of entrenched interests being forced to change because you had people campaigning for it.
Quote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/21/2017 02:38 pmAnd there are LOTS of ways to get your voice to congress, and a lot of Space citizen lobbying activities out there.However, most people vote either their pocketbook or their conscience, and things related to space usually don't fall into either category outside of just a few congressional districts. So even if everyone who should vote voted, I don't think that space-related topics would be a factor in the voting outcomes.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 12/21/2017 03:52 pmQuote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/21/2017 02:38 pmAnd there are LOTS of ways to get your voice to congress, and a lot of Space citizen lobbying activities out there.However, most people vote either their pocketbook or their conscience, and things related to space usually don't fall into either category outside of just a few congressional districts. So even if everyone who should vote voted, I don't think that space-related topics would be a factor in the voting outcomes.But we aren't talking about just voting. Don't get me wrong - voting is a PART of being a good space activist. But there are other things you can and SHOULD do. Question for everyone in this thread - Have you ever called your member of congress (or another member of congress) to talk about space with them? Have you ever participated in a district blitz, or even better a DC blitz?
Quote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/21/2017 07:47 pmQuote from: Coastal Ron on 12/21/2017 03:52 pmQuote from: Political Hack Wannabe on 12/21/2017 02:38 pmAnd there are LOTS of ways to get your voice to congress, and a lot of Space citizen lobbying activities out there.However, most people vote either their pocketbook or their conscience, and things related to space usually don't fall into either category outside of just a few congressional districts. So even if everyone who should vote voted, I don't think that space-related topics would be a factor in the voting outcomes.But we aren't talking about just voting. Don't get me wrong - voting is a PART of being a good space activist. But there are other things you can and SHOULD do. Question for everyone in this thread - Have you ever called your member of congress (or another member of congress) to talk about space with them? Have you ever participated in a district blitz, or even better a DC blitz? Elon and SpaceX's "actual accomplishments" have done more to raise interest and profile outside of so called "space states"(especially among Millennials that I have taught) than any other activist methodology you propose IMHO... Ask our friend Andrew about his experience up on the Hill and if any quantifiable results (this is not intended to be snark but an actual query)...