Jeff Foust@jeff_foustSam Gunderson, Blue Origin: when I first toured our new Cape Canaveral factory for New Glenn, was stunned how big it is. #vonbraun
James Dean @flatoday_jdeanULA's Gary Wentz says Vulcan-Centaur on track for first flight in mid-2020. (Yesterday, Blue Origin said targeting late-2020 for first New Glenn launch.)
Mayerson: early New Glenn launches will be payloads; might be 7-8 years before start launching people on that orbital vehicle. Will need to increase the launch rate (initially 12/year) significantly. #spaceexploration
QuoteMayerson: early New Glenn launches will be payloads; might be 7-8 years before start launching people on that orbital vehicle. Will need to increase the launch rate (initially 12/year) significantly. #spaceexplorationhttps://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/972507214845014016
Blue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.
[Space News] Blue Origin switches engines for New Glenn second stageQuoteBlue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.
Quote from: gongora on 03/29/2018 05:14 pm[Space News] Blue Origin switches engines for New Glenn second stageQuoteBlue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.Switching to a dual fuel architecture seems like a big deal. Surprised to seem them buckle down to schedule pressure but that's probably a good thing.
So will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...
Mowry said switching to the BE-3U for New Glenn’s second stage will allow Blue Origin to conduct the rocket’s first launch in the fourth quarter of 2020.
Quote from: gongora on 03/29/2018 05:14 pm[Space News] Blue Origin switches engines for New Glenn second stageQuoteBlue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.So will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...
Quote from: Inoeth on 03/29/2018 06:30 pmSo will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...I'd guess less to LEO, more to GEO (which may have been zero before). 2 BE-3Us are about half a single BE-4Us in thrust, and really close to a single Merlin 1D. F9 stages at a low velocity to enable reuse, New Glenn is expected to do the same. This limits the total mass of the upper stage by virtue of requiring a high Thrust to Weight ratio 2nd stage. I doubt the decrease in total 2nd stage mass would be offset entirely by higher ISP, low dry mass will also be needed to reach the GEO orbits.
Quote from: Inoeth on 03/29/2018 06:30 pmQuote from: gongora on 03/29/2018 05:14 pm[Space News] Blue Origin switches engines for New Glenn second stageQuoteBlue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.So will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...We don't know the size of the new second stage.If it's the same mass it could do possibly do more to both orbits... potentially crazy performance to direct GEO.
Quote from: GWH on 03/29/2018 06:38 pmQuote from: Inoeth on 03/29/2018 06:30 pmSo will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...I'd guess less to LEO, more to GEO (which may have been zero before). 2 BE-3Us are about half a single BE-4Us in thrust, and really close to a single Merlin 1D. F9 stages at a low velocity to enable reuse, New Glenn is expected to do the same. This limits the total mass of the upper stage by virtue of requiring a high Thrust to Weight ratio 2nd stage. I doubt the decrease in total 2nd stage mass would be offset entirely by higher ISP, low dry mass will also be needed to reach the GEO orbits.Should be massive improvements across the board due to the lower 2nd stage mass and higher ISP. I'd estimate 55+/-5 t to LEO, 18+/-3 t to GTO, and 5+/-2 t to GEO. Stretching that LH2 upper stage and adding another BE-3U could potentially allow a future performance bump AND full reuse a la BFS. That was always an issue with the BE-4U upper stage, no good way to land it. But BE-3 is perfect for that, if they go to 3 engine. It's even vaguely possible they could land with 2 engines.
Quote from: ZachF on 03/29/2018 07:57 pmQuote from: Inoeth on 03/29/2018 06:30 pmQuote from: gongora on 03/29/2018 05:14 pm[Space News] Blue Origin switches engines for New Glenn second stageQuoteBlue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.So will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...We don't know the size of the new second stage.If it's the same mass it could do possibly do more to both orbits... potentially crazy performance to direct GEO."A pair" of BE-3U limits them on thrust to roughly a 60% stretch, or 80% of the total mass of the current stage. And actually, for going direct to GEO there is little benefit to a huge second stage since all that dry mass has to be inserted at GEO. I'd estimate between 150 and 200 tonnes wet, and between 14 and 18 tonnes dry for the upper stage.
Quote from: envy887 on 03/29/2018 08:12 pmQuote from: ZachF on 03/29/2018 07:57 pmQuote from: Inoeth on 03/29/2018 06:30 pmQuote from: gongora on 03/29/2018 05:14 pm[Space News] Blue Origin switches engines for New Glenn second stageQuoteBlue Origin quietly changed the design of its New Glenn rocket around the beginning of the year in order to hold to a 2020 first launch and increase the range of orbital missions the rocket can complete....A Blue Origin executive told SpaceNews the company is shelving development of a vacuum-optimized version of BE-4 and will instead use vacuum-optimized versions of flight-proven BE-3 engines for New Glenn’s second stage and optional third stage.So will this change result in a vehicle that can lift more or less than the original version with the BE-4U? They're switching from one engine to two, lengthening part of it to account for the different fuels, etc, so i'm very curious to see what the new numbers will look like... Hopefully they update us soon now that this is all public... I also wonder if the fact that it looks like NG will compete directly with Vulcan (and this new version could be even more optimized to do so) is why ULA hasn't publicly declared one way or the other about their new engine (even though AJR has really scaled back and all the signs nonetheless point to the BE-4 as the winner)...We don't know the size of the new second stage.If it's the same mass it could do possibly do more to both orbits... potentially crazy performance to direct GEO."A pair" of BE-3U limits them on thrust to roughly a 60% stretch, or 80% of the total mass of the current stage. And actually, for going direct to GEO there is little benefit to a huge second stage since all that dry mass has to be inserted at GEO. I'd estimate between 150 and 200 tonnes wet, and between 14 and 18 tonnes dry for the upper stage.So New New Glenn is probably looking something like this now