Author Topic: Possible role of fully reusable Raptor-based F9/H 2nd stage for accelerating MCT  (Read 23858 times)

Offline TomH

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3) Falcon Heavy is phased out once BFR is successfully introduced, 2023.

Im not sure what exactly you mean by "introduced", but I expect there will be a long gap between the first flight of BFR and the last flight of FH.

If nothing else, I would expect them to keep using F9/FH for the earth orbit launch business while they scale BFR/BFS production. That frees the limited number of vehicles they can build for use on missions that absolutely require them. I also think that until you have built out a sizable BFS fleet (which could take a decade), there's a strong case for using them only for crew and tankers to refuel crew vehicles, since that lets you send the most people to mars for a given production level.

The mini-MCT that could be launched with FH as a methlox upper would be one of the most powerful exploration spacecraft ever built.  At fifth (?) scale of MCT, all MCT functions (launch, land, and relaunch) could be tested before full scale.  I suspect one such stage will land on Mars before MCT, and will (could) carry first crew to martian surface.

Such a reusable stage could also be a bus for transporting dozens of passengers at a time to awaiting MCTs.

I also would not be surprised to see this "mini-MCT" (Raptor-US with Red Dragon) to be the first manned landing craft on Mars. I also believe FH with Raptor US and Dragon would make a great lunar exploration architecture. With there being a continual niche for F9, and with F9-FH commonality being so close, I just don't see why that would shut down FH. It would be ideal for a lunar architecture.

Of course, once BFS is flying, it could also make a great lunar exploration vehicle as well.

Offline mme

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This tweet implies they don't plan to develop a reusable FH 2nd stage as stepping stone.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/755167487017291776
Quote
Elon MuskVerified account
‏@elonmusk

Really tempting to redesign upper stage for return too (Falcon Heavy has enough power), but prob best to stay focused on the Mars rocket
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline guckyfan

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This tweet implies they don't plan to develop a reusable FH 2nd stage as stepping stone.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/755167487017291776
Quote
Elon MuskVerified account
‏@elonmusk

Really tempting to redesign upper stage for return too (Falcon Heavy has enough power), but prob best to stay focused on the Mars rocket

I am not sure how to read this. It is a confirmation of the statement that they are not going to redesign the present upper stage.

I it is not as clear to me if the statement extends to a potential raptor methane upper stage too. If such a stage is actually coming.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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This tweet implies they don't plan to develop a reusable FH 2nd stage as stepping stone.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/755167487017291776
Quote
Elon MuskVerified account
‏@elonmusk

Really tempting to redesign upper stage for return too (Falcon Heavy has enough power), but prob best to stay focused on the Mars rocket

I am not sure how to read this. It is a confirmation of the statement that they are not going to redesign the present upper stage.

Suggest you read it as a statement of diligence/discipline. At some point you need to get on with the new LV because you've taken the prior one as far as you should.

FH serves well as already defined for what it needs to do until a BFR ("Mars rocket") comes into the picture. Even though it can be taken further.

Quote
I it is not as clear to me if the statement extends to a potential raptor methane upper stage too. If such a stage is actually coming.

It may still come, but perhaps not as a reusable US or as a FH US as a launch service. Or it may not come at all because the BFR/BFS can be built and tested without an interim step.

Suggest he's trying to "clear the decks" so to speak of unnecessary projects, to get on to the primary goal.

With F9/RD he can potentially land/reuse stages/SC on planets. With Dragon 2 he can deliver people. With having learned how to transition to a RLV from a ELV using a combined RLV/ELV, he doesn't need to do any ELV's anymore on the next iteration, just one big RLV to prove/operate (would greatly help financing it). The system coverage is adequate to commit to a larger scale design.

Perhaps moving BFR/BFS along faster is indicated, with the idea that consecutive RD missions feed back experience to the larger vehicles to qualify them for longer/larger missions,  they revise a single vehicle until it's confidence is high enough for a human mission to Mars? Certainly different then past approaches/

Offline sevenperforce

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On a similar note to this, discussion of possible Raptor-derived RLVs smaller than MCT/BFR: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42783.0

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