Author Topic: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab  (Read 9173 times)

Offline Archibald

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Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« on: 08/04/2015 11:21 am »
As the thread title says.  ;)
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19830004875

It seems there was a study to fly Skylab B ATM on a Spacelab mission.
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #1 on: 08/05/2015 12:44 am »
The instruments from that ATM were returned to the scientists who built them and many of them got used for terrestrial purposes, and in some cases cannibalized for parts for other instruments. David DeVorkin at the National Air and Space Museum has managed to gather up 5 of the original 8 instruments, along with the mounting armature. They are being restored and will be displayed in the Udvar-Hazy Center in the future.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #2 on: 08/05/2015 11:21 am »
I never realized that Skylab B, as exposed at the Smithonian, lacked its ATM.
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #3 on: 08/05/2015 01:01 pm »
I think the Smithsonian has had the armature, lacking instruments, since day 1. They got the instruments in the past few years. I have some photos.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #4 on: 08/17/2015 12:33 am »
This afternoon:
« Last Edit: 08/17/2015 12:34 am by Blackstar »

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #5 on: 08/17/2015 01:25 am »
Great pictures!  Is that black frame part of the telescope mount?   I really looks like Hubble parts!

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #6 on: 08/17/2015 03:59 am »
Great pictures!  Is that black frame part of the telescope mount?   I really looks like Hubble parts!

The black frame is called an armature. As I understand it (maybe somebody can correct me), the armature is what the instruments are connected to. Wrap that in a protective covering, stick the white end cap with the instrument apertures on top, and install that cylindrical glare shield, and the whole thing is called the mount. I don't know where the outer protective covering is, but NASM might choose to leave it off in order to display the instruments underneath. They have five of the eight original instruments and will put the ATM on display in the future. I don't know the timeline, but should be soon.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #7 on: 04/04/2017 10:43 pm »
Here is the original document in case the url goes away.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #8 on: 10/15/2017 07:05 pm »
My article on this will appear in The Space Review on Monday. I had a discussion with the NASM curator, David DeVorkin, about when and how the Smithsonian acquired the hardware.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 11:59 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #9 on: 10/17/2017 08:30 pm »
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3349/1

From Skylab to Shuttle to the Smithsonian

by Dwayne Day
Monday, October 16, 2017


Transition periods between space programs can be awkward, messy, and wasteful. We are certainly seeing that today as NASA has retired the space shuttle and spent many years trying to move on to the next phase—or more realistically, phases—in its human spaceflight program.

The transition from the Apollo era to the space shuttle was also messy and inefficient. NASA scrapped enough equipment to fly at least one more lunar landing and several low Earth orbit missions because Apollo’s goals were met and the agency needed to shift money to shuttle development. Of all the equipment NASA scrapped at the end of Apollo, perhaps the most tragic in terms of potential was the second Skylab workshop. Originally built as a backup, it was a complete space station in its own right. Had NASA possessed both the money and the goals, that Skylab could have flown and conducted valuable scientific research. The workshop was turned over to the Smithsonian Institution and much of it has occupied one of the main galleries in the National Air and Space Museum since 1976. But there was a brief proposal to fly some of that workshop’s hardware on a space shuttle mission in the 1980s. That plan never progressed, and today the hardware is on display at the Smithsonian’s Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center.


Offline Kaputnik

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #10 on: 03/22/2023 12:31 am »
Something that's always eluded me:
How did the ATM translate in to position upon reaching orbit?
I can't find any information about this mechanism, other than a couple of drawings suggesting that it was a sort of hinge or arm, rather than the (LM derived) ATM flying free and re-docking.
"I don't care what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do"- Gene Kranz

Offline laszlo

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #11 on: 03/22/2023 11:24 am »
Something that's always eluded me:
How did the ATM translate in to position upon reaching orbit?
I can't find any information about this mechanism, other than a couple of drawings suggesting that it was a sort of hinge or arm, rather than the (LM derived) ATM flying free and re-docking.

It was a hinge, rather than free-flight. I remember watching the launch coverage and hearing the great sigh of relief when the telemetry showed that the ATM had properly deployed. This was before they realized that the heat/micrometeroid shield had torn off and taken a solar panel with it. A malfunction of the hinge would have made both the ATM deployment and CSM docking impossible and seemed to be the major concern pre-launch.

Free flight and docking was way more complex than a (relatively) simple hinge. The ATM didn't need engines, fuel and an autonomous docking system and Skylab didn't need an additional docking port (the MDA only had 2 - primary on the centerline and emergency on the side). Besides the lack of hardware, the operations were much simpler and safer with the hinge. Free flight and docking of an LM-derived solar telescope had been considered back when Skylab was going to be a wet workshop since the booster couldn't handle the weight, but with the switch to a dry workshop launched on a Saturn V both concepts were replaced by the integral folding ATM.

Offline Proponent

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #12 on: 03/22/2023 11:54 am »
A malfunction of the hinge would have made both the ATM deployment and CSM docking impossible and seemed to be the major concern pre-launch.

Wasn't there a second docking port?

Offline Harry Cover

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #13 on: 03/22/2023 12:09 pm »
Frontal & radial. There were two of them indeed. Although the radial one was rarely if ever used (AFAIK).

Offline laszlo

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #14 on: 03/22/2023 02:29 pm »
Yes, the alternate docking port, but the concern was that a failure of the ATM to completely deploy could have left both docking ports inaccessible to the CSM.

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #15 on: 03/22/2023 03:24 pm »
What about the docking mechanism between the ATM and the DM?
Was it a standard probe/drogue as used in the CM/LM?
And was this the first time such a connection had been made without manual intervention by NASA?
"I don't care what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do"- Gene Kranz

Offline Jim

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #16 on: 03/22/2023 04:39 pm »
What about the docking mechanism between the ATM and the DM?
Was it a standard probe/drogue as used in the CM/LM?
And was this the first time such a connection had been made without manual intervention by NASA?

There was no docking mechanism between the ATM and the MDA.  Do you mean the original free flyer?   It was to use a crew for docking.  It would be the standard probe/drogue and I believe the ATM would have the probe installed.

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #17 on: 03/22/2023 07:34 pm »
Ok I see where I've been going wrong.
I thought the ATM was a LM derived module, with a pressurised cabin from which the instruments were operated.
But obviously as flown this was not the case. I guess it was basically an instrument pallet with no habitable volume, so no docking required?
"I don't care what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do"- Gene Kranz

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #18 on: 03/22/2023 08:13 pm »
Ok I see where I've been going wrong.
I thought the ATM was a LM derived module, with a pressurised cabin from which the instruments were operated.
But obviously as flown this was not the case. I guess it was basically an instrument pallet with no habitable volume, so no docking required?

It was "LM derived," but only for the external structure of it, which was based on the descent module of the LM, with the landing legs removed.

The Apollo Telescope Mount contained no pressurized volume, nor was there any pressurized access to it. Film processed in it needed to be retrieved via EVA.

« Last Edit: 03/22/2023 08:16 pm by whitelancer64 »
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: Skylab B Apollo Telescope Mount on Spacelab
« Reply #19 on: 03/22/2023 08:15 pm »
Something that's always eluded me:
How did the ATM translate in to position upon reaching orbit?
I can't find any information about this mechanism, other than a couple of drawings suggesting that it was a sort of hinge or arm, rather than the (LM derived) ATM flying free and re-docking.

Source: https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4208/p254b.htm
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

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