I'm wondering what the descion was to make up the crew for 14.All prior crews and crews after 14 were manned with at least one well experienced astronaut who flew at least one gemini mission. Apollo 14 is allmost an all rookie astronaut mission (Ok Sheppard flew before but only a couple of minutes). I thought after 13 they would put in a more experienced crew but they went for a crew with a total of 15 minutes of flight experiece. Any thoughts or comments because this puzzles me.
Quote from: Hoonte on 01/18/2011 09:19 amI'm wondering what the descion was to make up the crew for 14.All prior crews and crews after 14 were manned with at least one well experienced astronaut who flew at least one gemini mission. Apollo 14 is allmost an all rookie astronaut mission (Ok Sheppard flew before but only a couple of minutes). I thought after 13 they would put in a more experienced crew but they went for a crew with a total of 15 minutes of flight experiece. Any thoughts or comments because this puzzles me.This crew was actually going to fly before the Apollo 13 crew.
As for experience, Shepard and Roosa replaced Gordon Cooper and Donn Eisele respectively, both of whom had much more spaceflight experience and were technically in line for the slots having served on the Apollo 10 backup crew. However, there were other issues with Cooper and Eisele that resulted in management deciding not to assign them to a prime crew. I think Slayton had planned to eventually drop his rule that the CMP on lunar landing missions be a spaceflight veteran after the first couple of landings, if out of necessity more than anything else (there just weren't enough veterans available and willing to fill that role). I suspect Eisele was only a "seat warmer" for a rookie from the get-go. Regarding Shepard, I think he simply convinced Slayton and others that he was up to the task. He began sitting in on Apollo training classes and sessions well before he was returned to flight status, and put his nose to the grindstone in every way he could. He was a "man on a mission" to get assigned to a flight, and his determination and effort paid off. And the situation with Cooper was a convenient target for Shepard's ambition. Just my 2 cents.
I've read that Jim McDivitt was asked to fly as LMP on Apollo 13/14 with Shepard as CDR.When McDivitt showed no interest, did Slayton offer any other experienced astronaut (Stafford, or maybe even Cooper) the opportunity to fly with Shepard as LMP?IIRC, Shepard and Stafford were assigned earlier to fly on Gemini 3 before Shepard was grounded.
I believe that according to Cooper, he was offered the spot of backup CDR of Apollo 13, behind Shepard, and that was the best Slayton was prepared to offer. He declined, obviously.
Mattingly said that Deke offered him 18 LMP slot, which he really wanted but was likely to get cancelled, or the 16 CMP slot, which was 'a bird in hand'... so that is what he took.
Quote from: Leardawg on 01/19/2011 03:22 amI believe that according to Cooper, he was offered the spot of backup CDR of Apollo 13, behind Shepard, and that was the best Slayton was prepared to offer. He declined, obviously.Maybe that is correct but I never heard that one. I would doubt it since Cooper was not going to get a landing mission and that would have screwed up the Apollo 16 training and rotation.
Quote from: dks13827 on 01/19/2011 03:38 amMattingly said that Deke offered him 18 LMP slot, which he really wanted but was likely to get cancelled, or the 16 CMP slot, which was 'a bird in hand'... so that is what he took. I'd say he was offered the 13 CMP slot, not 16.Together with Stuart Roosa, Mattingly was the first Apollo rookie Group 5 astronaut to get a prime assignment without being backup first.
Back to the Gordon Cooper deal, I was really surprised when I read that part about Cooper being offered the backup CDR slot for Apollo 13. One would think if an actual prime crew assignment was not in the cards for him, why string him along? Certainly there were other qualified astronauts available, and in fact John Young was in line for that spot. What were they going to do with Young (who certainly deserved and had earned a command) if Gordo had said yes? One thought is that they planned to put Young in as backup CDR for Apollo 14, since Collins had turned it down. And if he says yes, then you have to assume he's in line for Apollo 16.It's also possible that Slayton and Shepard assumed Cooper would decline the assignment, and/or that they were trying to ease the blow of not getting the prime crew slot.Strange.
I wouldn't put a lot of weight on that particular story. Young was always the first choice for A13 backup commander (as of May 1969). It's one of many claims in LEAP OF FAITH that lacks supporting evidence. Read the rest of the book, if you haven't, and you'll see what I mean.Michael Cassutt
Someone else also suggested that Slayton may have wanted to use Cooper as a seat warmer for himself, hoping to get back on flight status in time to be assigned to Apollo 16. Food for thought.
Quote from: Leardawg on 01/20/2011 03:11 pmSomeone else also suggested that Slayton may have wanted to use Cooper as a seat warmer for himself, hoping to get back on flight status in time to be assigned to Apollo 16. Food for thought.No, no, and no. Didn't happen here, and didn't happen on AS-205. Michael Cassutt, co-author of DEKE! and WE HAVE CAPTURE
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/20/2011 10:31 pmQuote from: Leardawg on 01/20/2011 03:11 pmSomeone else also suggested that Slayton may have wanted to use Cooper as a seat warmer for himself, hoping to get back on flight status in time to be assigned to Apollo 16. Food for thought.No, no, and no. Didn't happen here, and didn't happen on AS-205. Michael Cassutt, co-author of DEKE! and WE HAVE CAPTUREI misspoke about Deke and a lunar flight. But didnt Deke confide in ( Cunningham ? ) that he hoped to maybe get the 2nd Apollo earth orbital flight ? ( this was before the fire, of course, the plans that is. )
Going back to the point about Slayton offering to make Mattingly LMP on Apollo 18...I've always struggled to understand Slayton's thinking here.Such an offer must have been made after Mattingly's involvement with Apollo 13, and presumably sometime before September 1970, when Apollo 18 was still on the manifest. By this time, Gordon, Brand and Schmitt were already training as the Apollo 15 backup crew and would have anticipated being cycled into the Apollo 18 prime slot. Suppose Mattingly had taken Slayton's offer of the Apollo 18 LMP post. How would Slayton have squared this in terms of crew rotation? More to the point, how would he have squared it with the scientific community, who had been breathing down his neck since at least 1969 to fly a geologist? Would he have simply turned the other cheek, stuck two fingers up at the scientists and bumped Schmitt in favour of Mattingly? If so, this scenario seems hard to believe when one considers the fierce rhetoric that was going on between NASA Headquarters and the National Academy of Sciences at the time.
Many thanks, Michael. It also prompts a second question. Why would Slayton consider reassigning Mattingly, who was a CSM expert and had served more than a year in backup and prime CMP capacities, to the LM?Several other members of the Original 19 (Lousma? Carr?) had already been in dedicated LM training for some time, so surely they would have had the edge over Mattingly on LM systems knowledge?It seems to me to be more likely that, if it happened at all, it was a case of Slayton trying to soften the blow of Mattingly losing Apollo 13.