Who is to say the other customers won't have their own fireworks?
I think this is the first graphic I have seen with this range of vehicles. It surely gives some perspective on the size of this monster.[I embedded it, but the image was too wide in that format, so am just posting the link. Image loads better this way with nothing else in the screen.]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JjCv75NUgVI/T1tBicTZ26I/AAAAAAAAm9w/H2bB2E8sliU/s1600/IM+2012-03-10+a+las+11.53.47.pngThis one shows more vehicles, but doesn't include Saturn and Nova.http://i.imgur.com/04bh0.jpg
I just noticed this features the old-style SLS Bloc 2 with the big J-2X US. It'd be really interesting to see an SLS Bloc IB inserted into the comparison charts.
Quote from: ChileVerde on 05/17/2013 08:49 pmSo, could that "while" indicate the possibility of remaining with five-segment SRB and making up for the Advanced Booster performance with the DUUS?I think that is clear. The presentation shows a 105 tonne capability using five-segment booster and a bigger-than-ICPS upper stage. This is a compromise rocket that can do the mission to nowhere for the White House. Its development would make Mars even less likely because it would stop Advanced Booster and J-2X. - Ed Kyle
So, could that "while" indicate the possibility of remaining with five-segment SRB and making up for the Advanced Booster performance with the DUUS?
Quote from: edkyle99 on 05/17/2013 09:05 pmQuote from: ChileVerde on 05/17/2013 08:49 pmSo, could that "while" indicate the possibility of remaining with five-segment SRB and making up for the Advanced Booster performance with the DUUS?I think that is clear. The presentation shows a 105 tonne capability using five-segment booster and a bigger-than-ICPS upper stage. This is a compromise rocket that can do the mission to nowhere for the White House. Its development would make Mars even less likely because it would stop Advanced Booster and J-2X. - Ed KyleOh I don't know about it making Mars less likely, Ed. It should be considerably cheaper developing just one upper stage than two, and having dual-use flexibility is a point in favor of it rather than against it in my opinion. This DUUS is enough to turn the Energia-class SLS Bloc 1 into a Saturn V-equivalent (118 mt LEO/43 mt BEO). An SLS Bloc 2 with DUUS & F-1B LRBs would lift 155 mt to LEO and send 61 mt BEO. If that a rocket of that class was somehow inadequate for getting us to Mars, I'd be questioning whether the mission planners got too ambitious. To me the SLS Bloc 1B's DUUS is the best step towards a push for Mars and certainly not a hindrance. You know what a true hindrance looks like? Another Congressional showdown that results in a slimmer NASA budget.
The answer is the booster competition has not started.It's only an engineering demonstration and risk reduction at this time.
Yea, I think the thought here might be, if we are going to upgrade to avanced boosters anyway (which must be done, as there's only enough 5-seg parts for maybe 10 pairs), Then rather than try to beef up the core with two upper stages, and adding another RS-25 to the bottom, just make the Advanced boosters powerful enough to get you there without it. I've always thought it's kinda of a waste to utilize a sustainer core platform, but not let the sustainer core burn all the way to disposal orbit. If you need a 2nd stage to orbit, why aren't we making the core kerolox and putting F-1X's on it? And then making a true 2-stage to orbit platform and toss out the idea of SRB's and then later Advanced boosters all together? Make a slimmer Saturn V then.But, if we are going to use those impressive and expensive RS-25's on a sustainer stage, then let them do their job and push for the whole ascent (disposal orbit). Just make the advanced boosters bigger if you want more performance. No matter which is chosen, they must be designed new anyway, just specify they must have enough performance to get SLS with a DUUS what they want, and if ATK's composite boosters can't get there, then they can't, and LRB's can fight it out.Putting a new J2X 2nd stage on a sustainer core platform just never seemed to make sense to me.
Quote from: spectre9 on 05/17/2013 10:03 pmThe answer is the booster competition has not started.It's only an engineering demonstration and risk reduction at this time.Point taken, but only 4 risk reduction contracts were issued, and that round was closed. ATK for solid advanced boosters, Dynetics and AJ for RP1 Advanced Boosters, and Northrop Grumman for composite tanks. The only talk of RS-68 is from an unnamed secondhand source. No corporation has publicly stated that they are considering RS-68 or any H2 engine. HydroLox just doesn't have the ISP density for that kind of initial thrust. (DIV and DIVH are not in this class.)
Who really knows if enough hydrolox to get a 130mt payload into orbit can fit through the VAB doors.Perhaps really tall boosters can be made.
Who really knows if enough hydrolox to get a 130mt payload into orbit can fit through the VAB doors.Perhaps really tall boosters can be made.Lets not forget that 5.49m F-1B boosters + a large upper stage goes well beyond the 130mt requirement.I'm not sure there is a definitive answer yet.
Quote from: spectre9 on 05/18/2013 10:28 amWho really knows if enough hydrolox to get a 130mt payload into orbit can fit through the VAB doors.Perhaps really tall boosters can be made.Lets not forget that 5.49m F-1B boosters + a large upper stage goes well beyond the 130mt requirement.I'm not sure there is a definitive answer yet.Oh you could definitely get enough hydrolox up top to fling 130 mt to LEO and still fit through the VAB doors. Boeing said that while the RL-10 powered DUUS upper stage-equipped Bloc 2 could launch 155 mt to LEO, one with a single J-2X could launch 178 mt, a 23 mt difference. Given the SLS Bloc IB is already capable of lifting 118 mt payloads to LEO, I'm fairly confident the J-2X US could lift at least 12 more mt to LEO. The SLS Bloc I in manned layout is 318 feet tall, and I've heard estimates that the SLS Bloc IB may be around 340 feet tall in its manned layout. I would expect that an SLS with a single J-2X DUUS would come in at around 350-360 feet tall. That should not be a problem for NASA given it's roughly the same height as the Saturn V.
I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere buthttp://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_07_01_2013_p0-592975.xml&p=1The article claims that Boeing has produced a small diameter, 2.4 m test tank that is 30% lighter than Li-Al alloy tanks.For the Shuttle external tank, LH2 tank as a model for SLS, the new composite tank would be 163,985 lbs, more than 70,000 lbs lighter than the 234,265 Li-Al tank. To me that's a huge improvement.
It also says they're working on a 5.5m tank to test. Why specifally 5.5m? What potential application would this match up best with?
Quote from: TrueBlueWitt on 07/02/2013 11:09 pmIt also says they're working on a 5.5m tank to test. Why specifally 5.5m? What potential application would this match up best with?That's the diameter of Dynetics proposed advanced liquid booster for SLS. Perhaps Dynetics might sub-contract with Boeing for the tanks.