Author Topic: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A  (Read 170334 times)

Online Chris Bergin

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/12/spacex-negotiations-new-life-pad39a/

The NASA release was a bit on the short side, so I covered (and used) some previous content I've written, including an Atlas V option that was studied and so on.

I know, Falcon XX and such are notional.............but cool :)
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Offline Lars_J

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A good read! It will be interesting to see how the "negotiations" go.

Offline russianhalo117

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Offline BrightLight

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I look forward to seeing how SpaceX re-configures the site - will they use the MLS?, the VAB etc.

Offline Lars_J

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I wonder how this will affect the ambitions of SpaceX building a launch pad at Brownsville, TX. It will probably put that an on hold for now. (Although that area can still be used to build a production facility for future large LV stages, which could be transported by boat to LC-39A)

I assume this also means that they will not bother converting LC-40 to support FH - there wouldn't be much point. And it will allow them to keep LC-40 open for business.

Presumably the launches would be split this way:
LC-39A: FH + F9 Dragon missions
LC-40: F9 Commercial missions
« Last Edit: 12/13/2013 10:07 pm by Lars_J »

Offline Orbiter

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I look forward to seeing how SpaceX re-configures the site - will they use the MLS?, the VAB etc.

They'll more than likely have a facility built near 39A.
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Offline Owlon

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Although that area can still be used to build a production facility for future large LV stages, which could be transported by boat to LC-39A

I doubt they would do that. Wasn't the stated purpose of a potential future manufacturing facility at the Brownsville site so they could avoid the expense of transporting stages?

Offline Lars_J

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Although that area can still be used to build a production facility for future large LV stages, which could be transported by boat to LC-39A

I doubt they would do that. Wasn't the stated purpose of a potential future manufacturing facility at the Brownsville site so they could avoid the expense of transporting stages?

Yes, that would be preferable, obviously. But if they are going to use LC-39A for a future Raptor-powered BFR, then they need to build the cores very near the pad, or somewhere else along the coast. (road transport impractical) And with property and local government relations established in TX, Brownsville would probably be a good choice for a production facility. I don't see them being too eager to build a factory in FL - and I'm not sure where near the pad it would be an option.

Offline yg1968

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I wonder how this will affect the ambitions of SpaceX building a launch pad at Brownsville, TX. It will probably put that an on hold for now. (Although that area can still be used to build a production facility for future large LV stages, which could be transported by boat to LC-39A)

I assume this also means that they will not bother converting LC-40 to support FH - there wouldn't be much point. And it will allow them to keep LC-40 open for business.

Presumably the launches would be split this way:
LC-39A: FH + F9 Dragon missions
LC-40: F9 Commercial missions

I don't think that it affect Brownsville. SpaceX has been buying a lot of land over there. I am sure that they intend to use it. However, I am guessing that Shiloh is now out of the picture.   

Offline douglas100

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I look forward to seeing how SpaceX re-configures the site - will they use the MLS?, the VAB etc.

My guess would be probably not, but who knows? The main thing is that 39A gives them a launch site for FH with a much greater range of launch azimuths than they could get from Brownsville.
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Offline Jcc

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #10 on: 12/13/2013 11:40 pm »
Although that area can still be used to build a production facility for future large LV stages, which could be transported by boat to LC-39A

I doubt they would do that. Wasn't the stated purpose of a potential future manufacturing facility at the Brownsville site so they could avoid the expense of transporting stages?

I think more specifically it's so they can build stages that are too big to transport by road or rail. Water transport is an option, and not terribly expensive either. Testing may end up being done at Stennis, also accessible by barge.

Offline Riley1066

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #11 on: 12/14/2013 01:20 am »
Nothing that launches from LC-39A or B should be anything but a NASA mission regardless of who gets to launch from it.  This is the People's Spaceport not SpaceX's or Boeing's or SNC's or any other company's spaceport.   If they want their own infrastructure let them build elsewhere.

Also if this was the NFL ... the money would stop flowing to the leader in the race and shift to the laggards to make competition in the industry more viable ... NASA should be investing more in Blue Origin and SNC than they do in Boeing and SpaceX ... to level the playing field ...

Also ... letting SpaceX buy LC-39A is like letting Wal Mart buy Interstate 90.
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Offline llanitedave

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #12 on: 12/14/2013 01:24 am »
They aren't buying, they're leasing.  You want NASA to keep it maintained?  Up their budget.
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Offline Riley1066

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #13 on: 12/14/2013 01:26 am »
They aren't buying, they're leasing.  You want NASA to keep it maintained?  Up their budget.

I am a very big supporter of Penny4NASA's mission statement ... so yes I'd up their budget to at least 1% of the total Federal Budget easily.
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Offline Orbiter

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #14 on: 12/14/2013 01:43 am »
NASA will still use 39A if they need it, they've stated several times they wish to integrate multiple vehicles into LC39, hence the "transform[ing] the Kennedy Space Center into a 21st century launch complex capable of supporting both government and commercial users" part of the press release.

SpaceX has also stated it's their intention to share 39A with other commercial companies as well as with NASA if SLS ever decides to go off there.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2013 01:45 am by Orbiter »
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #15 on: 12/14/2013 01:45 am »
They aren't buying, they're leasing.  You want NASA to keep it maintained?  Up their budget.

I am a very big supporter of Penny4NASA's mission statement ... so yes I'd up their budget to at least 1% of the total Federal Budget easily.

Did you catch the distinction llanitedave was pointing out? You don't seem to acknowledge the difference between selling or giving something verses letting someone basically rent the space.

Anyways, we can all dream about an ideal NASA budget, but they have to work within what they have, and are likely to get in the near future. (Even less) And you seem to want the pad to stay unused instead of letting someone use it. Am I understanding you right?

Seen another way - This lease (if agreed to once negotiations are done) might just make it much likelier that the next US astronauts will launch from the historic pad 39A.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2013 01:45 am by Lars_J »

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #16 on: 12/14/2013 01:57 am »
Slashing it further will get us even less. NASA needs more money, but what it needs MORE is efficiency and Leadership.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2013 03:06 am by MATTBLAK »
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Offline joek

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #17 on: 12/14/2013 02:20 am »
They aren't buying, they're leasing.  You want NASA to keep it maintained?  Up their budget.

Yes, not to mention that beyond maintaining it, making 39A useful and operating it as a multi-user site would require even more money.  Even with increased NASA funding such a decision would be questionable given the dubious demand for such a facility (c.f. LC-39B and the 21st Century Launch Complex).

Offline imspacy

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #18 on: 12/14/2013 02:21 am »
Nothing that launches from LC-39A or B should be anything but a NASA mission regardless of who gets to launch from it.  This is the People's Spaceport not SpaceX's or Boeing's or SNC's or any other company's spaceport.   If they want their own infrastructure let them build elsewhere.

Also if this was the NFL ... the money would stop flowing to the leader in the race and shift to the laggards to make competition in the industry more viable ... NASA should be investing more in Blue Origin and SNC than they do in Boeing and SpaceX ... to level the playing field ...

Also ... letting SpaceX buy LC-39A is like letting Wal Mart buy Interstate 90.


Cold War legacy Federal Agency Nasa has spent $500 billion over 40 years on manned space since Apollo ended... without getting a single American beyond low earth orbit... leaving itself incapable of crewing or even resupplying our own space station... no one now working at Nasa has ever designed a successful rocket, or managed or flown a single manned deep space mission...
The KSC, including pad 39a belongs to the American people…. and consider Shuttle, ISS, Constellation, and now SLS/Orion, vs SpaceX results....

I’m a taxpayer who wants his taxes and public resources used in the most innovative, efficient, spirited, effective manner to advance US space…. Regardless of whether it’s private enterprise or a govt  agency.
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Offline Norm38

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Re: SpaceX enter negotiations to breathe new life into Pad 39A
« Reply #19 on: 12/14/2013 02:22 am »
Also ... letting SpaceX buy LC-39A is like letting Wal Mart buy Interstate 90.

I'd say its more like letting United have an entire terminal at O'Hare airport.  Like it or not, the big players get the best infrastructure. But Jet Blue still gets some gates.  There are other pads, and room to build more.

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