Author Topic: Manned Mars Lander  (Read 63557 times)

Offline TaylorR137

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #60 on: 12/17/2013 07:07 am »
Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #61 on: 12/17/2013 01:08 pm »
Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

But the vehicle designs are so COOL! :)

I see the "Shuttle" as a Dragon-III design capable of going to the Moon and back. (I also noted that the LV is very "Falcon-9 Heavy" like as well and the "SpaceX" on the Hydra :))

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #62 on: 12/17/2013 01:17 pm »
And does the artist do commission work? :)

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #63 on: 12/17/2013 02:01 pm »
Here's my concept "Space Shuttle 2.0" - 10m x 30m - same basic EDL as DRM5, ~100 tons at Mars Entry.

The idea is to get a Mars mission (or moon, or asteroid) out of a single SLS launch with in orbit rendezvous of commercially delivered fuel in drop tanks, which makes for a good low cost payload for RLVs, optimized and program survivability rather than IMLEO. The concept artist (Stanley Von Medvey) sketched it launching on FX Heavy though as he's a SpaceX fan. Also shown is an inflatable habitat that could be left in Mars orbit before EDL.

At the core of the vehicle is an elevator that doubles as a drilling rig for water for methane ISRU.

The legs double as control surfaces similar to hypersonic test vehicles.
Nice artwork there! :) The hatch on the nose is a little iffy being a high heat area, I'd rather see the Hab on top near the Flight deck. Keep up the good work!  ;)
« Last Edit: 12/17/2013 02:02 pm by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #64 on: 12/17/2013 08:22 pm »
Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

So,

      Where can I get a copy of this software?

Jason
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline TaylorR137

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #65 on: 12/17/2013 09:21 pm »


And does the artist do commission work? :)

Randy

He does indeed. http://www.stanleyvonmedvey.com


Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

So,

      Where can I get a copy of this software?

Jason


It's not out yet, I'm working on getting the demo functioning then launching a crowdfunding campaign.

The software will be free. I'm funding the endeavor by selling custom 3d prints of designs. Hopefully a few of those will end up in wind tunnels!

Offline TaylorR137

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #66 on: 12/17/2013 09:23 pm »
Here's another piece of concept art, something halfway between Space Shuttle 2.0 and Hydra

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #67 on: 12/17/2013 09:58 pm »
Here's another piece of concept art, something halfway between Space Shuttle 2.0 and Hydra

That is very cool... The smaller size of this concept looks similar to stretched a F9/FH payload fairing, with similar "legs" as the concept on the earlier stage.

Offline TaylorR137

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #68 on: 12/17/2013 10:13 pm »
Here's another piece of concept art, something halfway between Space Shuttle 2.0 and Hydra

That is very cool... The smaller size of this concept looks similar to stretched a F9/FH payload fairing, with similar "legs" as the concept on the earlier stage.

Indeed. I should note while I commissioned the Space Shuttle 2.0 artwork Stanley did Hydra and this piece on his own, I take no credit. Its also worth mentioning both were done before SpaceX revealed their own landing gear designs or the specifications for Raptor.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #69 on: 12/17/2013 11:11 pm »


And does the artist do commission work? :)

Randy

He does indeed. http://www.stanleyvonmedvey.com


Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

So,

      Where can I get a copy of this software?

Jason


It's not out yet, I'm working on getting the demo functioning then launching a crowdfunding campaign.

The software will be free. I'm funding the endeavor by selling custom 3d prints of designs. Hopefully a few of those will end up in wind tunnels!

Does it handle wind tunnel testing?

     I've got a few designs I want to test out, including a blended wing in body lifting body hybrid I want to test out.

Jason
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline TaylorR137

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #70 on: 12/17/2013 11:22 pm »
Alright this will be my last post spilling details but I thought I'd show some of the 3D printed prototypes and the visual style of the software before getting back to work. I've got to get the demo wrapped up and the crowd funding campaign launched ASAP as I'm borrowing money just to pay rent!

The first Image shows lift (green) and drag (red) coefficients at all angles of attack, the exterior of a ship in the first stage of design, and the torque about its center of gravity on the right with equilibrium angles of attack as the radial lines. Airflow is from left to right.

The 3D prints are 1:200 and 1:100 scale, with the Space Shuttle orbiter model from the NASA website printed for comparison. The coloring of the model surface is the Newtonian pressure coefficient.

The last 1:100 model is the closest to a cross section I can show for now, though the tanks in the nose are omitted. This model was infused with a thermoplastic resin for strength, given that it must not flex under the ~100lb compressive load of the steel "tethers"  ;) .

www.TaylorRatliff.com

 
« Last Edit: 12/18/2013 02:43 am by TaylorR137 »

Offline TaylorR137

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #71 on: 12/17/2013 11:28 pm »
     I've got a few designs I want to test out, including a blended wing in body lifting body hybrid I want to test out.
Does it handle wind tunnel testing?
Jason

The full version will output 3D models with stings or holes at the center of gravity for you to order or print yourself. Once you do the testing you can submit the data and use it in the EDL simulations, overriding the Newtonian method. This is still a work in progress though, and certainly won't be part of the demo.

Offline Hyperion5

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #72 on: 01/02/2014 11:36 pm »
Aim your orbital mirrors at relatively unstable solid carbon dioxide in the area you intend to land; immediately before your land there.  Transient localized increase in atmospheric pressure will increase drag and downmass. 

Feel free to take that one @boredelonmusk!

That sure sounds like whoever has that Twitter account.  Btw, have we reached any sort of consensus about what the ideal mass range would be for a manned Mars lander?  It appears to me we've agreed that it needs to be at least 40 tonnes in mass, with 50 tonnes being a more ideal minimum.  Does anyone believe there is a maximum feasible lander mass?  Or at least not see the lander exceeding a certain mass?

Offline MickQ

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Re: Manned Mars Lander
« Reply #73 on: 01/09/2014 09:00 am »
Considering the numbers being accredited to MCT and Raptor in the SpaceX threads I don't think there will be a "Limit"  to what can be landed.  I think it is all going to depend on who requires what in their lander, eg Lander only, MDV/MAV, add a hab, add a hab/rover, ISRU plant, etc.  Where do you stop ?

Mick.

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