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International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Chinese Launchers => Topic started by: beidou on 11/28/2012 07:08 pm

Title: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 11/28/2012 07:08 pm
A thread for this launch, will be updated upon information from Chinese sources available.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 04/26/2013 04:00 pm
per discussion on Chinese forum: http://bbs.9ifly.cn/thread-10910-1-1.html
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 05/10/2013 05:43 pm
From China launch schedule thread

Rumors are on for a launch out of Taiyuan in May - probably the rumored CZ-4C "multiple sats" launch that has been lingering for the past few months (one suggested an uneducated guess of the moniker be "SJ-13"): http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7427&pid=247953 (http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7427&pid=247953)
I am hearing a TSLC launch between early and middle of May 2013. I have not found actual dates yet. Someone keep an eye out launchers in the area being shipped to TSLC, but is probably already their given info I came across.

Apparently someone is making launch day covers for one recent launch out of Taiyuan, so this seems to be confirmed. (http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7427&pid=249712 (http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=7427&pid=249712))

Now off to look for the identity of the rocket and (especially) payload....  ::)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 05/10/2013 05:44 pm
From China launch schedule thread


Now off to look for the identity of the rocket and (especially) payload....  ::)

We have two options: YG-17 (and maybe other small sats) by CZ-4C or the SJ-13 mission by CZ-4B.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/10/2013 05:59 pm
From China launch schedule thread


Now off to look for the identity of the rocket and (especially) payload....  ::)

We have two options: YG-17 (and maybe other small sats) by CZ-4C or the SJ-13 mission by CZ-4B.

Hard to say which one designation will be used - a bit of uneducated discussion with other Chinese forum members led to the conclusion that this may be a SAR constellation (not unlike the German TerraSAR-X/Tandem-X/SAR-Lupe or the Canadian future RADARSAT triplet) build in Shanghai (today there was a report that 3 different launch teams from Shanghai were working at various launch sites on the anniversary of the May Fourth Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Fourth_Movement) - probably one working on SZ-10 and the other two in TSLC, one each for the rocket and satellites).

So it seems virtually certain that this will be launched in the next 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 05/10/2013 06:14 pm
From China launch schedule thread


Now off to look for the identity of the rocket and (especially) payload....  ::)

We have two options: YG-17 (and maybe other small sats) by CZ-4C or the SJ-13 mission by CZ-4B.

Hard to say which one designation will be used - a bit of uneducated discussion with other Chinese forum members led to the conclusion that this may be a SAR constellation (not unlike the German TerraSAR-X/Tandem-X/SAR-Lupe or the Canadian future RADARSAT triplet) build in Shanghai (today there was a report that 3 different launch teams from Shanghai were working at various launch sites on the anniversary of the May Fourth Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Fourth_Movement) - probably one working on SZ-10 and the other two in TSLC, one each for the rocket and satellites).

So it seems virtually certain that this will be launched in the next 2 weeks.

So, it can be something not related to YG or SJ-13?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 05/10/2013 06:16 pm
So, it can be something not related to YG or SJ-13?

I have absolutely no idea.....  :-[
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 05/15/2013 11:01 am
As everyone is paying attention to the sounding rocket launch on May 13th, please don't forget this mission in Taiyuan is imminent.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 05/15/2013 12:58 pm
With such secretive mission, we shouldn't expect to see any NOTAM's for this one.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/05/2013 06:09 pm
bump!

There will be a launch from Taiyuan in July from various Chinese sources. This launch could either be Yaogan-17 or Gaofen-2.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/12/2013 05:21 pm
Apparently the tracking ship Yuan Wang 5 has left Jakarta today (http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1288) (already yesterday local time), so expect the launch to happen early next week.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/12/2013 06:58 pm
Thanks for the updates!
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/12/2013 08:27 pm
Apparently the tracking ship Yuan Wang 5 has left Jakarta today (http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1288) (already yesterday local time), so expect the launch to happen early next week.

An excerpt from the report is as below:
"On July 4, Yuan Wang 5 arrived in Jakarta Bay, Indonesia. After a few hours at anchor, it entered port to replenish supplies, undertake necessary repairs and give its crew some shore leave. Plans filed with the port authority showed it as due to depart on July 12, possibly heading for the Indian Ocean to support a launch to sun-synchronous orbit from China around July 15-20 of an unknown payload."
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: limen4 on 07/13/2013 02:45 pm
Apparently the tracking ship Yuan Wang 5 has left Jakarta today (http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1288) (already yesterday local time), so expect the launch to happen early next week.

An excerpt from the report is as below:
"On July 4, Yuan Wang 5 arrived in Jakarta Bay, Indonesia. After a few hours at anchor, it entered port to replenish supplies, undertake necessary repairs and give its crew some shore leave. Plans filed with the port authority showed it as due to depart on July 12, possibly heading for the Indian Ocean to support a launch to sun-synchronous orbit from China around July 15-20 of an unknown payload."

Shijian-11(05)?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/15/2013 11:40 pm
My source reports that the CZ-4C on the launch pad at TSLC has completed all of its pre launch and pre countdown preparation tasks and the whole launch centre and all centre personnel have been prepared for this weeks start of launch countdown operations. The individual could not provide me with an exact time or date for either the start of the countdown or the actual launch date for the fear of endangering the individual's family's well being and the individual's employment.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/16/2013 06:42 am
My source reports that the CZ-4C on the launch pad at TSLC has completed all of its pre launch and pre countdown preparation tasks and the whole launch centre and all centre personnel have been prepared for this weeks start of launch countdown operations. The individual could not provide me with an exact time or date for either the start of the countdown or the actual launch date for the fear of endangering the individual's family's well being and the individual's employment.

You have a great source! Thanks for the update.
Will this be a Yaogan satellite?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/16/2013 03:15 pm
My source reports that the CZ-4C on the launch pad at TSLC has completed all of its pre launch and pre countdown preparation tasks and the whole launch centre and all centre personnel have been prepared for this weeks start of launch countdown operations. The individual could not provide me with an exact time or date for either the start of the countdown or the actual launch date for the fear of endangering the individual's family's well being and the individual's employment.
You have a great source! Thanks for the update.
Will this be a Yaogan satellite?
My source refused to answer that question for my sources own security, citing recent a security protocol that was mailed in April 2013 to all military and civilian personnel stationed at all of the launch centres. The new protocol only allows certain senior officials to disclose payload information to the public. The new protocol also prevents my source from learning about the payload until weeks after the launch since my source is not a member of either of the launch or SC processing teams.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: chewi on 07/16/2013 04:10 pm
...citing recent a security protocol that was mailed in April 2013 to all military and civilian personnel stationed at all of the launch centres. The new protocol only allows certain senior officials to disclose payload information to the public. The new protocol also prevents my source from learning about the payload until weeks after the launch since my source is not a member of either of the launch or SC processing teams.
So, the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket also prohibited?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/16/2013 04:17 pm
...citing recent a security protocol that was mailed in April 2013 to all military and civilian personnel stationed at all of the launch centres. The new protocol only allows certain senior officials to disclose payload information to the public. The new protocol also prevents my source from learning about the payload until weeks after the launch since my source is not a member of either of the launch or SC processing teams.
So, the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket also prohibited?
I do not assume so, but my source did not say anything about the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/16/2013 05:27 pm
...citing recent a security protocol that was mailed in April 2013 to all military and civilian personnel stationed at all of the launch centres. The new protocol only allows certain senior officials to disclose payload information to the public. The new protocol also prevents my source from learning about the payload until weeks after the launch since my source is not a member of either of the launch or SC processing teams.
So, the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket also prohibited?
I assume so, but my source did not say anything about the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket.

Probably we only see those after the launch as usual.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/17/2013 10:33 am
...citing recent a security protocol that was mailed in April 2013 to all military and civilian personnel stationed at all of the launch centres. The new protocol only allows certain senior officials to disclose payload information to the public. The new protocol also prevents my source from learning about the payload until weeks after the launch since my source is not a member of either of the launch or SC processing teams.
So, the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket also prohibited?
I assume so, but my source did not say anything about the publication of any pre-launch photos of the rocket.

A guy (probably working in the aerospace industry) gave a hint there will be no launch this week.
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=258397&fromuid=24484
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/18/2013 10:45 am
Launch is imminent (Source: http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=258511&fromuid=24484)

Note: the drop zone in the following picture is not official.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/18/2013 12:22 pm
I think I've got the winner!  ;D

A1022/13 - A TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA ESTABLISHED BOUNDED BY:N292143E1091008-N292620E1084558- N301912E1085906- N301435E1092327 BACK TO START.VERTICAL LIMITS:SFC-UNL. ALL ACFT ARE PROHIBITED TO FLY INTO THE AREA WITHOUT PERMISSION BY ATC. SFC - UNL, 19 JUL 23:31 2013 UNTIL 19 JUL 23:58 2013. CREATED: 18 JUL 04:14 2013

Launch time is therefore ~23:45 UTC on July 19.  8)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 07/18/2013 02:58 pm
My guess is JB-5 4 radar bird to a 630 km SSO with launch at 23:48-23:49 UTC and LTDN = 07:00.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/18/2013 03:24 pm
My guess is JB-5 4 radar bird to a 630 km SSO with launch at 23:48-23:49 UTC and LTDN = 07:00.

Well the rumors are indicating something else (including some insider proclaiming that this is the most amazing Chinese orbital launch ever attempted  :D) - probably a whole bunch of new satellites (maybe more than 3?) and of course something new (it's not even certain the birth certificate(s) will include the name "YG"  ;)). Your analysis on the orbital height and launch time may well be correct though....
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/19/2013 10:54 am
My guess is JB-5 4 radar bird to a 630 km SSO with launch at 23:48-23:49 UTC and LTDN = 07:00.

Well the rumors are indicating something else (including some insider proclaiming that this is the most amazing Chinese orbital launch ever attempted  :D) - probably a whole bunch of new satellites (maybe more than 3?) and of course something new (it's not even certain the birth certificate(s) will include the name "YG"  ;)). Your analysis on the orbital height and launch time may well be correct though....

So, this can be the 'multiple satellites' mission that was reported months ago.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/19/2013 11:00 am
My guess is JB-5 4 radar bird to a 630 km SSO with launch at 23:48-23:49 UTC and LTDN = 07:00.

Well the rumors are indicating something else (including some insider proclaiming that this is the most amazing Chinese orbital launch ever attempted  :D) - probably a whole bunch of new satellites (maybe more than 3?) and of course something new (it's not even certain the birth certificate(s) will include the name "YG"  ;)). Your analysis on the orbital height and launch time may well be correct though....

So, this can be the 'multiple satellites' mission that was reported months ago.

I do believe that the two are one and the same. Maybe you can help merge the two threads?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/19/2013 11:05 am
My guess is JB-5 4 radar bird to a 630 km SSO with launch at 23:48-23:49 UTC and LTDN = 07:00.

Well the rumors are indicating something else (including some insider proclaiming that this is the most amazing Chinese orbital launch ever attempted  :D) - probably a whole bunch of new satellites (maybe more than 3?) and of course something new (it's not even certain the birth certificate(s) will include the name "YG"  ;)). Your analysis on the orbital height and launch time may well be correct though....

So, this can be the 'multiple satellites' mission that was reported months ago.

I do believe that the two are one and the same. Maybe you can help merge the two threads?

Sure, I'll do that but I think its better to wait for the launch and then we can merge the threads if it turns out to be that way.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/19/2013 11:06 pm
Ok folks, need you all to keep an eye on this one, as we have an article from Rui ready to go when confirmation arrives.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/19/2013 11:11 pm
Ok folks, need you all to keep an eye on this one, as we have an article from Rui ready to go when confirmation arrives.

Some bad news:

1. Not a peep I have seen yet - though it's really early here so not a surprise (it's amazing that I got to wake up after all!)
2. Payload identification very uncertain (don't think this has happened before at such a late time)
3. The launch most probably requires a second 3rd stage burn, therefore official confirmation won't come until at least 1.5 hours after launch (maybe even longer for a complex launch mission, if the rumors are right)

I think it might be prudent to hold your horses till at least 00:30 Zulu for releasing the article.....  ;D
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/19/2013 11:15 pm
Copy that!

00:30 ZULU and I'll be back! ;D

PS Let's all try and use proper thread titles. I know the Chinese do all that backwards YG-17 Yaogan Weixing-17 nonsense, but this is an English language site.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/19/2013 11:25 pm
This might be one of the most interesting missions from China in the last months.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/19/2013 11:49 pm
Looks like someone on 9ifly is quoting a microblogger that says it heard the noise of a rocket launch.

Still waiting for confirmation that launch as taken place.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/20/2013 12:28 am
Another microblogger saying that launch as taken place. Still waiting for confirmation of launch success and specially informations about what was launched!!
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 12:43 am
Confirmed
http://news.xinhuanet.com/2013-07/20/c_116616052.htm
Three technical expt satellites
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 12:45 am
Launch at 0737 Beij time on the 20th
CZ-4C
"yi jian sanxing"    (Google translates as "the stone Samsung" which I'm sure is wrong!)
Chinese translation help please?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 12:49 am
Launch at 0737 Beij time on the 20th
CZ-4C
"yi jian sanxing"    (Google translates as "the stone Samsung" which I'm sure is wrong!)
Chinese translation help please?

Well this is surprising - 3 satellites each with different names: Chuang Xin 3 (CX-3) + Shiyan 7 (SY-7) + Shijian 15 (SJ-15)! "yi jian sanxing" means "one rocket, three satellites"  ;)

Launch time is 23:37 UTC.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 12:51 am
Thanks - just figured out the names, couldn't make sense of the thing in quotes but you made it clear, so loosely translated "Triple satellite launch".

创新三号
Chuangxin 3
试验七号
Shiyan 7

实践十五号
Shijian 15
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 12:51 am
Looks like one of the three (SJ-15?) is the long awaited "Chinese robotic arm test satellite" that has been planned for some time (maybe they are trying to put one on TG-2?), while another (SY-7?) will look for orbital debris (and maybe NEOs?).

I guess CX-3 is built by the Chinese Academy of Sciences again....
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 12:54 am
Interesting that they give them in that order. My guess would be that SJ-15 is the main payload, with CX-3 being a microsat and SY-7 a smallish secondary payload
- probably SJ-15 is military so they are deemphasizing it?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 12:56 am
Interesting that they give them in that order. My guess would be that SJ-15 is the main payload, with CX-3 being a microsat and SY-7 a smallish secondary payload
- probably SJ-15 is military so they are deemphasizing it?

Not if they are testing a robotic arm on one and tracks orbital debris on another (although the later one might be military operated - see SBSS).  ;)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Phillip Clark on 07/20/2013 12:58 am
I wonder if we will start to see less information coming out about missions which are at the "military" end of the spectrum?   Both pre- and post- launch?   Shijian 11-5 might be the first of the new policy.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 01:08 am
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/20/2013 01:18 am
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/07/china-secretly-long-march-4c-three-sats/
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 02:11 am
Some better launch photos - this clearly shows that the 3.35 m diameter fairing has been used. (so maybe the catch-and-run-and-photo-taking-trio are stacked vertically?)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 02:53 am
First TLE for one of the objects from the launch has been released - orbit is 661*673 km * 98.06°.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 03:41 am
Now 4 objects

39208   37A  660 x 673 km x 98.06
39209   37B  666 x 673 km x 98.06
39210   37C  664 x 673 km x 98.06
39211   37D  478 x 671 km x 98.10

Orbit is sun-synch with 0642 local time descending ode.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 03:51 am
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-07/20/c_132557420.htm
for the English version of the story.

So what happened to Chuangxin-2, Shiyan-5 and 6, and SJ-13/14?

"A Long March-4C carrier rocket carring three satellites for scientific experiments blasts off from the launch pad in the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in Taiyuan, capital of north China's Shanxi Province, July 20, 2013. China successfully launched three satellites for scientific experiments, namely the Chuangxin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15, into space at 7:37 a.m. Saturday. The three satellites will be used mainly for conducting scientific experiments on space maintenance technologies"
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/20/2013 03:57 am
Satori, please merge this thread with the other one. Thanks!
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 04:23 am
A short news report on the launch: http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C10616/309f9285620f4fdba3c7e82edf964e7b (http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C10616/309f9285620f4fdba3c7e82edf964e7b)

Exact launch time 23:37:55.685 UTC.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-07/20/c_132557420.htm
for the English version of the story.

So what happened to Chuangxin-2, Shiyan-5 and 6, and SJ-13/14?

"A Long March-4C carrier rocket carring three satellites for scientific experiments blasts off from the launch pad in the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center in Taiyuan, capital of north China's Shanxi Province, July 20, 2013. China successfully launched three satellites for scientific experiments, namely the Chuangxin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15, into space at 7:37 a.m. Saturday. The three satellites will be used mainly for conducting scientific experiments on space maintenance technologies"


I suppose they are still under development...  ::)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 07/20/2013 07:17 am
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/07/china-secretly-long-march-4c-three-sats/

It was also the fifth successful orbital Chinese launch in 2012.

May be in 2013  ::) ?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Lewis007 on 07/20/2013 08:18 am
A few additional launch pix can be found here:
http://www.chinanews.com/tp/hd2011/2013/07-20/226329.shtml
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/20/2013 09:47 am
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/07/china-secretly-long-march-4c-three-sats/

This launch was from TSLC (Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center), why were there so many paragraphs about JSLC (Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center), like shown below ???

"The Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center, in Ejin-Banner – a county in Alashan League of the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region – was the first Chinese satellite launch center and is also known as the Shuang Cheng Tze launch center.

The site includes a Technical Centre, two Launch Complexes, Mission Command and Control Centre, Launch Control Centre, propellant fuelling systems, tracking and communication systems, gas supply systems, weather forecast systems, and logistic support systems.

Jiuquan was originally used to launch scientific and recoverable satellites into medium or low earth orbits at high inclinations. It is also the place from where all the Chinese manned missions are launched.

Presently, only the LC-43 launch complex, also known by South Launch Site (SLS) is in use. This launch complex is equipped with two launch pads: 921 and 603. Launch pad 921 is used for the manned program for the launch of the Chang Zheng-2F launch vehicle (Shenzhou and Tiangong). The 603 launch pad is used for unmanned orbital launches by the Chang Zheng-2C, Chang Zheng-2D and Chang Zheng-2C launch vehicles.

The first orbital launch took place on April 24, 1970 when the CZ-1 Chang Zheng-1 (CZ1-1) rocket launched the first Chinese satellite, the Dongfanghong-1 (04382 1970-034A).

"
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 07/20/2013 09:58 am
Rui's article!
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/07/china-secretly-long-march-4c-three-sats/

This launch was from TSLC (Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center), why were there so many paragraphs about JSLC (Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center), like shown below ???


Thanks for the note. It will be corrected soon.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 02:22 pm
A fifth object has been cataloged - probably an adapter like the Ariane Sylda, I guess, separating the vertically stacked satellites
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 02:25 pm
Looks like one of the three (SJ-15?) is the long awaited "Chinese robotic arm test satellite" that has been planned for some time (maybe they are trying to put one on TG-2?), while another (SY-7?) will look for orbital debris (and maybe NEOs?).

I guess CX-3 is built by the Chinese Academy of Sciences again....

Apparently SJ-15 is built by SAST - so I think the identity of SJ-15 and SY-7 should be swapped over: SJ-15 being the orbital thingy tracker and SY-7 the robotic arm satellite (which made sense since there was a proposal by the Harbin Institute of Technology, which built all of the previous SY series of satellites, of such a satellite in 2009). CX-3 may be the target satellite of SY-7. (not a surprise either - the companion satellite released during Shenzhou 7 was based on CX-1)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Lewis007 on 07/20/2013 02:54 pm
Has anyone seen a launch video on CCTV?
Thanks !
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/20/2013 02:55 pm
Has anyone seen a launch video on CCTV?
Thanks !

A short news report on the launch: http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C10616/309f9285620f4fdba3c7e82edf964e7b (http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C10616/309f9285620f4fdba3c7e82edf964e7b)

Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/20/2013 04:06 pm
Nice report! I don't see a "Y" serial number anywhere on the rocket or console displays, but you can sort of make out a list of flight events, I think the numbers in seconds from launch are (with my guesses at what the events might be:)

 0    Launch
156   (Stage 1 shutdown?)
210   
213?  (things like Stage 2 ignition, but I thought that would be more like T+156-160)
214?  (fairing separation??)
622?  (stage 3 burn?)
1172?  )
1252?  )  satellite separation events?
1349?  )

Can someone improve this?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 07/21/2013 10:12 am
Another video at
http://military.cntv.cn/2013/07/20/VIDE1374320646266670.shtml (http://military.cntv.cn/2013/07/20/VIDE1374320646266670.shtml)

Exact launch time: 23:37:55.685 UTC
and a mission profile extracted from the video

Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/21/2013 10:56 am
The wreckage was found, but it was mistakenly noticed as that from Shenzhou-10 ( ;D) even with nuclear radiation ( :o). Some detail and pictures are available here:
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=258990&fromuid=24484
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 07/21/2013 01:02 pm
Both fairing sections fell inside the NOTAMed zone over Hubei province.
One half near Taipingba village (N295200E1090837), the other half, some 18km away SW near Xiaohefu village (N294808E1085827)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: input~2 on 07/21/2013 02:31 pm
For an SSO altitude of about 670 km (as seems to be the case here) the maximum capability of CZ-4C is about 2950 kg (source (http://www.baike.com/wiki/%E9%95%BF%E5%BE%81%E5%9B%9B%E5%8F%B7%E4%B8%99%E8%BF%90%E8%BD%BD%E7%81%AB%E7%AE%AD)).
That would correspond to the maximum mass of the 3 S/C plus 2 P/L adaptors.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/24/2013 10:47 am
A propaganda article from Chinese media: http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=259375&fromuid=24484

 
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 07/25/2013 08:26 pm
A propaganda article from Chinese media: http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=259375&fromuid=24484

 

Basically the interesting things from the article are:

1. SY-7 is indeed built by CASC's affiliate DFH Satellites Corp.  (which built SY-4 launched in 2011). Since it is described as being an important milestone for China's space exploration and space station programs, this confirms that it is the satellite that carries the prototype robotic arm.
2. CX-3 is indeed built by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
3. SJ-15 was finally launched after 8 years of development (!) - it looks like that it may have some even more interesting orbital objects tracking abilities than initally thought (hint of something not unlike those "Star Wars" missions by BMOD in the 1980/90s?  ;)).
4. The rocket arrived at the launch site on July 2.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 07/27/2013 03:41 am
  arm.
2. CX-3 is indeed built by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

Presumably, specifically the Shanghai microsatellite engineering center of the CAS? (which built CX-1-01)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 07/27/2013 10:07 am
The Chinese are discussing the SJ-15 is the Chinese version of SBSS. I would bet the Americans here know much better about this mission than they do. ;D
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=10910&pid=259544&fromuid=24484
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/07/2013 05:16 am
Looks like two of the satellites deployed has just made a very close pass of each other half a day ago per NORAD tracking data - are we going to see the first ever use of a Chinese robotic arm grappling in space soon?

From Robert Christy: http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396 (http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: beidou on 08/11/2013 10:05 am
A video on Chinese space robotic arm.
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=9551&pid=261125&fromuid=24484
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 08/11/2013 01:28 pm
Looks like two of the satellites deployed has just made a very close pass of each other half a day ago per NORAD tracking data - are we going to see the first ever use of a Chinese robotic arm grappling in space soon?

From Robert Christy: http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396 (http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396)

1. According to TLE, on Aug 09 object C has an approach to object B, Cannot judge on minimal distance but it could be in the range of several kilometers.

2. On Aug 10 one can see small but visible change in the orbit of B. Calculating directly from TLEs, from 98.055°, 667.7x672.3 km, to 98.058°, 668.0x672.0 km.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 08/11/2013 07:49 pm

2. On Aug 10 one can see small but visible change in the orbit of B. Calculating directly from TLEs, from 98.055°, 667.7x672.3 km, to 98.058°, 668.0x672.0 km.

... which reverted to original orbit today. Interesting, too.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/18/2013 09:57 am
Some very interesting news: it seems that NORAD's "object C" (SY-7?) has made some very large orbital changes over the past 3 days - the orbit became 502 X 510 km X 98.05° (100 km decrease in altitude!  :o) on August 16 and now it's 565 X 610 X 97.7° (inclination decrease!) - apparently it is closing in with good old SJ-7 launched in 2005. Hmm?  ???
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/18/2013 10:04 am
Some very interesting news: it seems that NORAD's "object C" (SY-7?) has made some very large orbital changes over the past 3 days - the orbit became 502 X 510 km X 98.05° (100 km decrease in altitude!  :o) on August 16 and now it's 565 X 610 X 97.7° (inclination decrease!) - apparently it is closing in with good old SJ-7 launched in 2005. Hmm?  ???


A better report from Robert Christie: http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396#plot (http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1396#plot)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 08/18/2013 07:50 pm
Great analysis by both you and Bob!  Makes me wonder what all the past maneuvers of SJ-7 were about - in particular, could it also have been doing rendezvous experiments.
Have you checked if the Aug -Oct 2008  manuevers passed close to any other satellites?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: JimO on 08/19/2013 07:51 pm
see:

Surprise Chinese Satellite Maneuvers Mystify Western Experts
Marcia S. Smith
Posted: 19-Aug-2013
Updated: 19-Aug-2013 12:23 PM
http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/surprise-chinese-satelllite-maneuvers-mystify-western-experts#.UhI_o6e-06M.twitter

China is the midst of conducting unusual satellite maneuvers involving a new satellite launched last month and an older satellite in orbit for eight years.  Exactly what capabilities the Chinese are demonstrating remains unclear to western analysts.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: weedenbc on 08/19/2013 08:30 pm
Very interesting, seems to be similar in some ways to the SJ-12/SJ-06F rendezvous from 2010:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1689/1

Still seems to me to be much more indicative of on-orbit inspection than an ASAT weapons test. The maneuvers are occurring over a pretty long time period and the rate of closure is nothing like what you'd want for a kinetic kill.

Absolutely dual-use technology that could have weapons applications, but not significantly different than DART, XSS-11, MiTeX, Orbital Express, PRISMA, Phoenix, or some other projects that involve rendezvous in orbit.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: JimO on 08/20/2013 12:31 am
Might it have something to do with the automated lunar sample return mission that involves rendezvous/cargo-transfer of the ascent stage and the return capsule in lunar orbit?
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Star One on 08/23/2013 05:45 pm
Could it have something like a robotic arm on it & perhaps it's going to get hold of one of the targets.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: JimO on 08/24/2013 05:37 pm
Could it have something like a robotic arm on it & perhaps it's going to get hold of one of the targets.

Using a robotic arm for grapple may be a clue for the nature of the intended targets. If it's a specialized latching mechanism such as on the STS RMS, it implies a target installed with compatible fixtures, requiring advanced planning. If it's a generic hand-like mechanism, as some TV news suggests, it indicates a generic target not originally expected to be grabbed.

Another clue that I've been unable to decipher is the orbital inclination.

Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: JimO on 08/24/2013 05:45 pm
Very interesting, seems to be similar in some ways to the SJ-12/SJ-06F rendezvous from 2010:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1689/1

Still seems to me to be much more indicative of on-orbit inspection than an ASAT weapons test. The maneuvers are occurring over a pretty long time period and the rate of closure is nothing like what you'd want for a kinetic kill. 

Good news and bad news.

It's not just the maneuvers themselves that seem slow [although that's no indication of how quickly they could occur operationally]. The test program is stretching over years. Is that really consistent with a military-intended system?

As for rate of closure, it will have sensors specifically designed for proximity operations at low-to-zero rates. But once grappled and emplaced against a selected region of the satellite, it can carry a tool or a hand grenade, for whatever purpose is desired.

"Space mines" are theoretically the devices that attach themselves to operational satellites for activation at some future point.

Until recently, US DoD satellites had little if any 'situational awareness' around themselves, not enough ability to detect approaching or even latched-on small objects. The 'space mine' left behind by a manipulator-equipped covert rendezvouser could be low enough mass, or cleverly enough positioned, to be unnoticed by the target's attitude control system.

That's always been my gut feeling about the X-37 tests -- testing proximity sensors to hear, smell, or feel touch of unexpected visitors.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: JimO on 08/24/2013 05:46 pm
Bill Gertz has a blog entry:
China’s Mystery Satellite Could Be a Dangerous New Weapon
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/630a858923ec
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 08/24/2013 10:45 pm
I do not think object C is Shiyan-7. Too many tasks for one spacecraft in just a month -- two rendezvous plus tests of imagery compression / multiplexing device plus tests of manipulator. I bet that object C is Shijian-15 whose purpose was not announced at all.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Star One on 08/26/2013 03:13 pm
Bill Gertz has a blog entry:
China’s Mystery Satellite Could Be a Dangerous New Weapon
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/630a858923ec


Sounds rather Jame Bond like, fascinating article & sounds very plausible.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: weedenbc on 08/26/2013 03:17 pm
Title of that article is pure linkbait, see my comments in the actual article itself as to why it's probably not an ASAT test (yet the secrecy is still a concern).
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Skyrocket on 08/26/2013 04:41 pm
Bill Gertz has a blog entry:
China’s Mystery Satellite Could Be a Dangerous New Weapon
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/630a858923ec


Sounds rather Jame Bond like, fascinating article & sounds very plausible.

Every satellite, which can do rendezvous maneuvres, can be used as a ASAT weapon. Nevertheless, there are lot of peaceful applications.
But most media prefer to have spectacular headlines, therefore each of those satellites is reported as a "space weapon".
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Star One on 08/28/2013 04:36 pm
New article on it.

http://www.zarya.info/blog/?p=1507
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/15/2013 04:55 am
It is intriguing to see that almost 2 months after this launch has happened, NORAD still can't identify and distinguish the three payloads altogether - in their database they are still listed as "PAYLOAD A/B/C". This has not happened for a long time - suggesting that the names given to the satellites are vague enough that it is difficult to see which is which?  ::)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 09/20/2013 08:26 pm
It is intriguing to see that almost 2 months after this launch has happened, NORAD still can't identify and distinguish the three payloads altogether - in their database they are still listed as "PAYLOAD A/B/C". This has not happened for a long time - suggesting that the names given to the satellites are vague enough that it is difficult to see which is which?  ::)

At least now there are RCS values:  2.0 sq m for A, 1.2 for B, 4.0 for C, 7.9 for the rocket,  and 6.0 for the E debris
In my mind this confirms B = Chuangxin  since I expect that to be a small satellite
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: jcm on 10/03/2013 01:48 am
Article by Bill Gertz claims US officials tell him  that "last week"  China "conducted a test of a maneuvering satellite that captured another satellite in space...  involved one of three small satellites fitted with a mechanical arm that were launched July 20".

http://freebeacon.com/china-testing-new-space-weapons/?print=1

He also of course describes the mission as part of a space weapons program and an 'ASAT test', which I find  silly.
But that doesn't mean that his sources about the capture are wrong, although there's no orbital data to suggest
an approach within the last week. If the story does reflect reality it's probably a recent US assessment of events
that happened during the August flyby of payloads B and C, rather than an actual event happening last week.

Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: weedenbc on 10/03/2013 12:38 pm
I love unverifiable quotes attributed to anonymous "US government officials".  So perfect for riling up the masses.

Also notice the care with which Gertz inserts quotes from verified sources so that they appear to confirm his accusations, while in reality they don't. And for a bonus we get a reappearance of the infamous Rick Fisher who's always good for a laugh.

I HIGHLY doubt that what Gertz is claiming here is the consensus opinion of the US government. Likely it's the opinion of one person in the national security world who's on the "China is evil and must be destroyed" train.

In reality, there is no way for a ground observer with any technology that I'm aware of to verify whether or not two things actually docked in orbit.  All you can do is estimate a probability of conjunction.

This was the case for the 2007 space weapons test (at least according to Gertz' definition) of DARPA's Orbital Express. Once they got within a certain distance the SSN couldn't tell them apart.

The only way to verify that a capture took place would be to have access to the TT&C from at least one of the spacecraft involved. If China (or anyone) is indeed doing such a thing, they will have the instrumentation to be able to verify it. The question is whether or not the USG was able to access the feed from that instrumentation, or perhaps intercept analysis of it done on the ground.

Remember, cyber is the weak point for a lot of space activities :)
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: JimO on 10/03/2013 09:10 pm
I echo Jonathan and Brian's skepticism, since I see nothing new in the latest article.

I am still not even convinced the 'hand' mentioned in a TV program last summer was actually claimed to be aboard this particular satellite. Somebody please slap some sense into me, if I'm unduly skeptical. You've all had to do it in the past.

The only quasi-announced Chinese interest in small-vehicle automated docking is the lunar sample return later this decade on a CZ-5, which apparently is to utilize lunar orbit rendezvous/capture and robotic sample canister transfer to the return stage.

Speaking of Chinese orbital rendezvous, I remain inadequately informed about the results of the Shenzhou-jettisoned free flier several years ago -- the one that was claimed to have re-rendezvoused with the Shenzhou. But all of the TV images I was ever able to find of the Shenzhou from the free-flier were made on the initial departure leg, as far as I can tell. Again, pummeling is requested if I need updating.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 10/03/2013 09:27 pm
I am still not even convinced the 'hand' mentioned in a TV program last summer was actually claimed to be aboard this particular satellite. Somebody please slap some sense into me, if I'm unduly skeptical. You've all had to do it in the past.

Speaking of Chinese orbital rendezvous, I remain inadequately informed about the results of the Shenzhou-jettisoned free flier several years ago -- the one that was claimed to have re-rendezvoused with the Shenzhou. But all of the TV images I was ever able to find of the Shenzhou from the free-flier were made on the initial departure leg, as far as I can tell. Again, pummeling is requested if I need updating.

As of SJ-15, the launch report was very vague on the purpose of the three different spacecraft but it did mention testing of space manipulator and experiments in orbital servicing as goals.

As of the BX-1 subsatellite, the U.S. tracking data provided in TLEs did show a re-rendezvous with SZ-7 orbital module to a close distance on 2008 Nov 07 and another large maneuver in 2009 Jan.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 10/20/2013 09:06 pm
On Oct 12-16 object A (39208) raised its orbit some 800 meters and on October 19 or so separated object J (39357). In the last 30 hours, it continues to be in the vicinity of A, less than 3 kilometers of distance.
Title: Re: Long March 4C; Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 10/21/2013 09:31 am
So this was sn object that was previously attached to Object A? Could this mean that they will try to catch Object J?
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 05/12/2014 02:02 pm
A participant to Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum pointed my attention that Chinese object 39210 (2013-037C) is performing its second rendezvous with Shijian 7.

To match orbital planes, 39210 rised its orbit 51 km on April 12-14 and lowered it again on May 8-12. As of 03:56 UTC today, it was 2.0 km higher than SJ-7 and some 300 km apart. Close encounter may occur within hours.
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Satori on 05/18/2014 05:45 pm
Liss, do you have any more news about this manoeuvres?
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 05/19/2014 05:48 am
Liss, do you have any more news about this manoeuvres?
Not too much. 2013-037C passed over its target on May 12, lowered to itself +0.8 km on May 13 and to +0.4 km on the next day. It was some 250 km behind on May 14 when it lowered itself to -0.4 km and started to approach slowly. On May 16 object 2013-037C made its height the same as the target and as of yesterday, folowed it at some 120 km.
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: gwiz on 10/19/2014 11:19 am
Interesting thread here:
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/forum12/topic13702/?PAGEN_1=5

Appears to have found a computer code with relevant information on this launch.
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 06/07/2016 09:53 am
2013-037C has returned to 2013-037B after three years of other tests including two rendezvouses with SJ-7.

Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: limen4 on 06/09/2016 07:17 pm
The recent CAST launch history is saying that SY-7 consits of two separate payloads SY-7A and SY-7B. Could it be that Object A and the separated Object J represent those pair? What do we know about the movement of Object J?
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 06/11/2016 05:12 am
The recent CAST launch history is saying that SY-7 consits of two separate payloads SY-7A and SY-7B. Could it be that Object A and the separated Object J represent those pair? What do we know about the movement of Object J?
I believe this is the case. Multiple separations/dockings had been assumed in different orbits (SY-7A performed small maneuvers herself) but the two always remained in close proximity (less the 5 km I beieve).
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Phillip Clark on 06/16/2016 08:59 am
I have started to try and make sense of the objects from the 2013-037 launch, and I am attaching a graph which shows the evolution of the orbital periods for the four objects which we believe to be payloads.   However, which payload is which is open to debate.

Object B/39209 has performed no orbital manoeuvres and therefore I think it is safe to say that this is the small comsat, Chuangxin 3.

Object A/39209 has performed some fairly minor orbital manoeuvres and I would suggest that this is Shijian 15.

Object J/39357 appeared in orbit after the others and therefore it should be safe to say that this is Shiyan Weixing 7B.   It has closely followed the orbit of the presumed Shijian 15.

Finally, object C/39210 should therefore be Shiyan Weixing 7A which as been wandering around, including a visit or two to Shijian 7.

Are we agreed on this?   Maybe everyone is already agreed, of course!


Addendum.   I have attached a much higher resolution graph for objects A and J.   Would it be a totally crazy idea to suggest that the remote manipulator might be on 7B and that is now attached to Shijian 15?   Their orbits are extremely close and analysis suggests that you cannot calculate satellite altitudes using the Two-Lines with an accuracy of less than 1km at best.   Alternatively they could just be very close to each other indeed but not attached, but if that had been the case I would have thought they would have drifted apart in the last year.

Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Liss on 06/16/2016 10:00 am
Philip,

My educated guess on who is who in 2013-037 is as follows:

2013-037A = 39208 = Tansuo-4A = Shiyan-7A with the manipulator
2013-037J = 39357 = Tansuo-4B = Shiyan-7B as a test object for manipulator testing
2013-037C = 39210 = Tansuo-5 = Shijian-15, a long-living manoeuverable inspector bird
2013-037B = 39209 = Tansuo-3 = Chuangxin-3 which is not a comsat but a MSX-type satellite observer

Igor
Title: Re: Chuang Xin-3, Shiyan-7 and Shijian-15; Long March 4C; TSLC - July 19, 2013
Post by: Phillip Clark on 06/16/2016 10:09 am
Philip,
My educated guess on who is who in 2013-037 is as follows:
2013-037A = 39208 = Tansuo-4A = Shiyan-7A with the manipulator
2013-037J = 39357 = Tansuo-4B = Shiyan-7B as a test object for manipulator testing
2013-037C = 39210 = Tansuo-5 = Shijian-15, a long-living manoeuverable inspector bird
2013-037B = 39209 = Tansuo-3 = Chuangxin-3 which is not a comsat but a MSX-type satellite observer
Igor

So this would mean that Shijian 15 is the inspector satellite, while undertaking "earthquake research" or whatever.   OK, I can live with that!   I had got the idea that Shiyan Weixing 7A had been the inspector bird.   I guess my brain needs a holiday if I am mixing things up like that!