That said, the paper linked clearly says the device constructed to not get results got results anyway, so QED the resonant cavity theory is falsified by this experiment...
So not sure why anyone's excited...
The first line in the abstract of the technical report is "This paper describes the eight-day August 2013 test campaign designed to investigate and demonstrate viability of using classical magnetoplasmadynamics to obtain a propulsive momentum transfer via the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."Who knows if this will work, but it is not some magic inertial-less drive that can lead to free energy or perpetual motion. It is an attempt to interact with virtual particles like an electromagnet would interact with an electric field.
Fair comment.I guess we will have to just see what turns up if they continue to refine the experiments.Maybe a slim chance of a real, usable effect, but the payoff would be so enormous that it must be worth a fair bit of time, money and effort to either put this to bed for good or confirm it to a high degree of confidence.
Quote from: RonM on 08/02/2014 02:07 pmThe first line in the abstract of the technical report is "This paper describes the eight-day August 2013 test campaign designed to investigate and demonstrate viability of using classical magnetoplasmadynamics to obtain a propulsive momentum transfer via the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."Who knows if this will work, but it is not some magic inertial-less drive that can lead to free energy or perpetual motion. It is an attempt to interact with virtual particles like an electromagnet would interact with an electric field.Thats fine, so long as it is understood that if this experiment behaves the same regardless of inertial frame (usually considered a positive for a theory) then it will provide free energy.Hey! come to think of it, that air example I made above implies we could also get energy for free from the CMB case. In that case it would merely be the good old energy we used to exploit all the time in sailing ships, where you have water and wind moving with different average velocities. We could exploit the difference between the CMB frame and the interstellar medium (say with a minimagnetosphere) or more immediately we could produce energy from a slight drag on the CMB frame, gradually bringing the speed of the planet (and through the slight force of gravity, our sun) to rest WRT to the CMB. The mass of the sun and 400km/s is a massive store of energy.
You could use this device to harvest energy from the Universe one way or anoter. But anyway, in my opinion it's at least as bad to violate conservation of momentum.
It's not a scientific strawman. It's a valid criticism. Propellantless thrust already requires new physics. Also, all of the excitement over applications basically assume that what KelvinZero is saying is true.
Quote from: Cherokee43v6 on 08/01/2014 10:38 pmem-drives, ion engines, VASIMIR, Alcubrier... seem's we have a bazillion ways to go fast on very little fuel once we are up there... But we still have to deal with the rocket equation to get there in the first place. I'm waiting to see a /real/ game-changer come along... a provable means of getting out of the gravity well that beats rockets.Sadly, we are rather lacking in acceptable options there still.I think even if the EM thruster actually worked as advertised that it's my understanding you would still need a jet engine for an aircraft or rocket for a spacecraft to get off the ground in the first place.
em-drives, ion engines, VASIMIR, Alcubrier... seem's we have a bazillion ways to go fast on very little fuel once we are up there... But we still have to deal with the rocket equation to get there in the first place. I'm waiting to see a /real/ game-changer come along... a provable means of getting out of the gravity well that beats rockets.Sadly, we are rather lacking in acceptable options there still.