The core problem is that based on this minimal experience the author poses a false binary choice between “government” or “private sector” approaches to space transportation, a choice in which he argues that the government should abandon traditional acquisition practices in favor of relying on “free enterprise.”In effect, he makes an unsupported claim that commercial markets exist (or should exist) for the public goods of science, exploration, and security.
the reported first stage Falcon Heavy thrust is approximately 1.71 million pounds. SLS thrust is 8.87 million pounds of thrust. The SLS is designed to place more than twice as much payload into a low Earth orbit and over three times as much into a trans-Mars injection orbit. Again, these are government requirements, not commercial requirements, and that’s why SLS is a NASA program.
May I please ask that any responses to the following be focused and to the point. If you find fault in my analysis, please point out precisely where and how I am wrong.<snip>
Here are the NASA numbers in raw form.
May 22, 2017MEDIA ADVISORY M17-056NASA to Discuss FY2018 Budget Proposal, Provide Virtual Tours of CentersNASA will hold a series of events Tuesday, May 23, highlighting the agency’s Fiscal Year 2018 budget proposal, including a televised State of NASA address by acting Administrator Robert Lightfoot and Facebook Live virtual tours of NASA’s 10 centers, where innovation is enabling exploration and discovery.Lightfoot will give a presentation at 12:30 p.m. EDT to NASA employees at the agency’s Headquarters in Washington on FY2018 budget highlights, setting the stage for the coming year at NASA and spotlighting the past work that led to current achievements. This presentation will air live on NASA Television and the agency’s website.At 1:30 p.m., NASA's social media team will take visitors behind the scenes for a virtual tour of NASA and a look at the cutting-edge work here and on humanity's destiny in deep space. These Facebook Live events will be hosted on each center's Facebook page and will run about 15 minutes each. The following list of virtual tours includes times, centers and highlights of each tour:1:30 p.m. -- Glenn Research Center, in Cleveland, will host a tour of its Electric Propulsion Lab, where the agency tests solar propulsion technologies that are critical to powering spacecraft for NASA’s deep-space missions.1:50 p.m. -- Marshall Space Flight Center, in Huntsville, Alabama, will host a tour from a Marshall test stand where structural loads testing is performed on parts of NASA's Space Launch System rocket. 2:10 p.m. -- Stennis Space Center, in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, will take visitors on a tour of their test stands to learn about rocket engine testing from their Test Control Center.2:30 p.m. -- Armstrong Flight Research Center, in Edwards, California, will host a tour from their aircraft hangar and Simulator Lab to learn about NASA’s X-Planes program.2:50 p.m. -- Johnson Space Center in Houston will take viewers on a virtual exploration trip through the mockups of the International Space Station and inside the agency’s deep-space exploration vehicle, the Orion spacecraft.3:10 p.m. -- Ames Research Center, in California’s Silicon Valley, will bring viewers into its Arc Jet Facility, a plasma wind tunnel used to simulate the extreme heat of spacecraft atmospheric entry.3:30 p.m. -- Kennedy Space Center, in Florida, will bring visitors inside the Vehicle Assembly Building to learn about how NASA is preparing for the first launch of America's next big rocket, SLS.3:50 p.m. -- Langley Research Center, in Hampton Virginia, will bring visitors inside its 14-by-22-foot wind tunnel, where aerodynamic projects are tested.4:10 p.m. -- Goddard Space Flight Center, in Greenbelt, Maryland, will discuss the upcoming United States total solar eclipse and host its tour from the Space Weather Lab, a large multi-screen room where data from the sun is analyzed and studied.4:30 p.m. -- Jet Propulsion Laboratory, in Pasadena, California, will bring viewers to the Spacecraft Assembly Facility to learn about robotic exploration of the solar system.Also on Tuesday, at 5 p.m. NASA’s acting Chief Financial Officer Andrew Hunter will brief media on the agency’s 2018 budget proposal. To participate in this briefing, media must contact Karen Northon in the NASA Headquarters newsroom at 202-358-1540 or [email protected] no later than 4 p.m. Tuesday.Audio of the media teleconference will be streamed live on NASA's website at:https://www.nasa.gov/liveNASA budget information will be available online at noon Tuesday at:https://www.nasa.gov/budget-end-
...---------- Forwarded message ----------From: "Thomas Culligan" <[email protected]>Date: May 16, 2017 10:33 AMSubject: Re: ACTION NEEDED - Senate SLS-Orion-GSDO Appropriations Letter... A copy of the final signed letter is attached, and the list of Senators who signed this year is copied below. Thanks again for all your efforts to support these programs during the FY 2018 Appropriations process....
Quote from: Chris Bergin on 05/22/2017 03:22 pm...---------- Forwarded message ----------From: "Thomas Culligan" <[email protected]>Date: May 16, 2017 10:33 AMSubject: Re: ACTION NEEDED - Senate SLS-Orion-GSDO Appropriations Letter... A copy of the final signed letter is attached, and the list of Senators who signed this year is copied below. Thanks again for all your efforts to support these programs during the FY 2018 Appropriations process....Why aren't Sens. Cruz and Nelson among the signatories? They are among SLS's biggest, uh, boosters.
NASA is fabricating and assembling the systems to launch humans into lunar orbit by 2023.
QuoteNASA is fabricating and assembling the systems to launch humans into lunar orbit by 2023.First time 2021 was dropped as party line AFAIK, though everyone knew it was coming.
Quote from: AncientU on 05/23/2017 09:08 pmQuoteNASA is fabricating and assembling the systems to launch humans into lunar orbit by 2023.First time 2021 was dropped as party line AFAIK, though everyone knew it was coming.The year 2021 for EM-2 was based on getting EM-1 of the ground in early 2018 at the latest. We all know that EM-1 has moved into the latter half of 2019 recently. The gap between EM-1 and EM-2 has been four (4) years for ages now so EM-2 is shifting to the right as much as EM-1 is shifting to the right.
This really locks them into a three-year or so gap between EM-1 and the subsequent launch. Can't start modifying the ML until EM-1 flies, no matter how late it slides into 2019 or 2020. (Once you start the mods, a 'cargo' launch can't fly using a second ICPS -- don't know if that was the plan, though.) Probably pushes the first manned flight to 2024/2025. There was talk of compressing the big interval between EM-1 and EM-2 (so that the manned flight -- EM-3 -- wouldn't also slip), but now that seems unlikely.
I voted no because I don't think SLS will ever fly with crew.
Quote from: woods170 on 05/24/2017 05:52 amQuote from: AncientU on 05/23/2017 09:08 pmQuoteNASA is fabricating and assembling the systems to launch humans into lunar orbit by 2023.First time 2021 was dropped as party line AFAIK, though everyone knew it was coming.The year 2021 for EM-2 was based on getting EM-1 of the ground in early 2018 at the latest. We all know that EM-1 has moved into the latter half of 2019 recently. The gap between EM-1 and EM-2 has been four (4) years for ages now so EM-2 is shifting to the right as much as EM-1 is shifting to the right.Right, we've seen this coming for a long time, but new dates have not been official party line. Now, '2023 flying humans' is the new party line... maybe. But 2023 is EM-2 (EUS/Europa Clipper) as you've explained. Humans get EM-3.So, as I said (to howls of protest) a few months ago, crew will fly in 2024-2025.If EM-1 doesn't slip. Again.Quote from: AncientU on 10/28/2016 07:28 pmThis really locks them into a three-year or so gap between EM-1 and the subsequent launch. Can't start modifying the ML until EM-1 flies, no matter how late it slides into 2019 or 2020. (Once you start the mods, a 'cargo' launch can't fly using a second ICPS -- don't know if that was the plan, though.) Probably pushes the first manned flight to 2024/2025. There was talk of compressing the big interval between EM-1 and EM-2 (so that the manned flight -- EM-3 -- wouldn't also slip), but now that seems unlikely.Edit: Added quote