Author Topic: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates  (Read 289907 times)

Offline elmarko

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #400 on: 10/28/2009 03:05 pm »
You know the usual SRB cameras that we usually see footage from half way through a shuttle mission (for debris analysis)?

Does this booster have those on?

Offline psloss

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #401 on: 10/28/2009 03:05 pm »
I lost video briefly during the separation dynamics, so hopefully will get to see this better...

Sorry if this was already covered in thread, still catching up.  The NASA TV feed (over satellite) had trouble right after separation, for about 20 seconds.  I'll be checking my recordings to see what the deal was, but there was definitely a problem there.  Internet may have been fine, but cable would definitely have seen the problem.
It choked on both satellite and cable at the same time -- also earlier in the morning.

Offline Ford Mustang

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #402 on: 10/28/2009 03:06 pm »
Upper stage video doesn't show separation, but I think the upper stage was *supposed* to be LOS at separation -- all the electronics were in the first stage.

Right, but was it supposed to tumble that fast after separation?
« Last Edit: 10/28/2009 03:06 pm by Ford Mustang »

Offline Ford Mustang

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #403 on: 10/28/2009 03:06 pm »
Looks like Ares I-X cleared LC-39B without damage:

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #404 on: 10/28/2009 03:06 pm »
Although ullage motors are mostly for fuel settling, they'll have to be used to avoid recontact since SRMs so often (always?) have residual thrust after "burn-out." Of course, people have thought of this before today.

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Offline clongton

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #405 on: 10/28/2009 03:07 pm »
The public and Congress should see this flight as MORE of a success than a failure.

Ares-IX accomplished its objectives - and that's all that could be asked. It was a successful launch. Nice job guys!
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Offline dvsmith

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #406 on: 10/28/2009 03:07 pm »
Maybe it was all scheduled but the sep sequence was sort of depressive. I wonder if public and Congress will see it as a failure.

1.) Ares I-X flew straight as an arrow during ascent

2.) The REAL upper stage on Ares I will still be moving forward (on its OWN propulsion) once the first stage separates from it.  Also, if artist concepts and online videos are anything to go by, the upper stage will have its own separation motors to help push it away from the FS after SRB burnout.

1) Unless you count the apparently excessive "pad avoidance" maneuver.

2) There is a delay between staging and second stage ignition, to prevent the motor's exhaust from rebounding off the first stage and potentially damaging the second stage.  The ullage motors on the second stage will impart a slight acceleration, but only to settle propellant in the tanks prior to stage ignition. The 1st stage will (and did today) have booster separation motors -- essentially retro-rockets at the base of the aft skirt.

Offline psloss

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #407 on: 10/28/2009 03:07 pm »
I'm a huge fan, but I find it interesting the vehicle cam replays cut out between ignition and tower clear and again at first and upper stage sep.  Coincidence?
No, just issues with signal getting through the plume to MILA and/or PDL.  Happens with Shuttle, too.

Offline ApolloLee

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #408 on: 10/28/2009 03:08 pm »
Quote
Yeah, they will have to be significant ullage motors
Aren't ullage motors just designed to settle the fuel in the stage?
Keith
I am sure the final flight vehicle, if it ever is built, will include ullage motors.  The Saturns did and not only for pushing the upper stage away but also to settle the propellant in the upper stage as mentioned.  I believe this second stage had no such active component so the odd separation really doesn't seem to be that odd to me.

I'm curious, then, to compare this with the first Saturns that had a dummy upper stage. Did we see the same thing?

Offline Jim

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #409 on: 10/28/2009 03:08 pm »

Also remember we are used to seeing separations of powered 2nd stages...


Atlas and Delta have unpowered separations

Offline mikegi

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #410 on: 10/28/2009 03:08 pm »
I can't find the link on NSF right now but I believe there was one that had a timeline along with graphics showing what was supposed to happen with Ares I-X. It seems like that would be a good starting point for discussion on the actual flight, rather than infinite speculation on separation/tumbling. Is there such a doc on NSF?

Offline Kulfispace

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #411 on: 10/28/2009 03:09 pm »
Well done again on the coverage team - congrats to NASA and contractor teams.

Press conference in a few minutes.
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Offline Lee Jay

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #412 on: 10/28/2009 03:09 pm »
Just ask yourself.... With that liftoff tilt and that separation - even with separation motors - Do you think people should fly on that?

This test has almost no resemblance to Ares-I, thus nothing about it would affect my decision to fly on Ares-I or not.

Offline psloss

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #413 on: 10/28/2009 03:10 pm »
1) Unless you count the apparently excessive "pad avoidance" maneuver.
Didn't look that excessive, just looked different from Shuttle, which walks to the north and has a different thrust to weight ratio.

Can't necessarily use Shuttle as a baseline for this.

Offline rsnellenberger

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #414 on: 10/28/2009 03:10 pm »
Upper stage video doesn't show separation, but I think the upper stage was *supposed* to be LOS at separation -- all the electronics were in the first stage.

Right, but was it supposed to tumble that fast after separation?

Don't know if they ever said *what* specifically would happen to the upper stage after separation (besides fall into the ocean). 

*After* seeing the launch, I suspect it saw enough of the tumble motor exhaust to start a quick tumble, with no significant airstream at that altitude to counteract the force of the exhaust.  I'll wait for the analysis, though...

Offline Ford Mustang

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #415 on: 10/28/2009 03:10 pm »
LC-39B Pad perimeter shot:

Offline Ford Mustang

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #416 on: 10/28/2009 03:10 pm »

Offline yinzer

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #417 on: 10/28/2009 03:10 pm »
Ares I-X staged at a much higher dynamic pressure than Ares I is going to.  That staging didn't look so great, but without good knowledge of how it was supposed to look, it's hard to say (much like LCROSS).
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We'll have to wait for official data, but that really does look like the FS recontacted with the USS.
« Last Edit: 10/28/2009 03:11 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline Kulfispace

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Re: LIVE: Ares I-X Countdown and Launch ATTEMPT 2 Updates
« Reply #419 on: 10/28/2009 03:11 pm »
Pad Perimeter Cam was stunning
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