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Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles => NGIS (Formerly Orbital ATK) - Antares/Cygnus Section => Topic started by: savuporo on 03/29/2012 01:26 am

Title: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: savuporo on 03/29/2012 01:26 am
Live update thread for LADEE mission.

Source for an actual upcoming launch date i found was here:
http://www.marsspaceport.com/ladee

Title: Re: LADEE launch, may 2nd ?
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/29/2012 01:56 am
May 2013, so it's still on target.  :P

And several threads out there, including one with SpaceX protesting the launch contract: :-X

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=12631.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=12631.0)

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24338.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24338.0)
Title: Re: LADEE launch, may 2nd ?
Post by: savuporo on 03/29/2012 02:05 am
Hah, i was somehow convinced its this year.
Title: Re: LADEE launch, may 2nd ?
Post by: bolun on 06/19/2012 04:11 pm
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Operations/SEMCXUAXH3H_0.html

Quote
In 2013, a NASA satellite will beam digital signals to an ESA receiving station fast enough to stream dozens of movies at once. The test will help to demonstrate the readiness of next-generation optical links for future data-intensive deep-space missions.

Quote
The joint ESA/NASA activity is part of NASA’s Lunar Laser Communication Demonstration (LLCD) project, which will use a new optical terminal flying on NASA’s Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer – LADEE – spacecraft to communicate with a trio of stations on Earth. 

Quote
NASA’s LADEE spacecraft, to be launched to the Moon in 2013, will transmit laser signals to two NASA stations, one in California and one in New Mexico, and to ESA’s Optical Ground Station (OGS), in Tenerife, Spain.
Title: Re: LADEE launch, may 2nd ?
Post by: block51 on 03/13/2013 10:42 am
An neat video I found on facebook (alas no youtube or direct download) showing all of LADEE's solar panels being installed over a 2 day period. Time lapse.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - August, 2013
Post by: block51 on 03/13/2013 04:12 pm
A link to the video might be useful!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101655711173363
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - August, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 05/15/2013 12:42 am
Launch update

Date posted: 2013-05-14
Mission: LADEE
Change: Launch date is 9/6/2013 UTC
Source: Amy E. Grigg, GSFC Office of Communications, 5/13/2013

http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/change_log.php (http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/change_log.php)

Launch time is listed as September 6, 2013 at 02:37 UTC  (September 5, 22:37 EDT)

Spacecraft details and mission updates can be found here:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraftDisplay.do?id=LADEE (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraftDisplay.do?id=LADEE)
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/main/ (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/main/)
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 06/05/2013 04:15 pm
LADEE Arrives at Wallops for Moon Mission


The NASA Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) arrived today at NASA’s Wallops Flight Facility to begin final processing for its trip to the moon later this year. LADEE is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust. A thorough understanding of these characteristics will address long-standing unknowns, and help scientists understand other planetary bodies as well. LADEE has three science instruments and one technology demonstration onboard.

LADEE's scheduled Sep. 5, 2013, launch will mark several firsts. It will be the first payload to launch on a U.S. Air Force Minotaur V rocket integrated by Orbital Sciences Corp., and the first deep space mission to launch from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility.

NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington funds the LADEE mission, a cooperative effort led by NASA’s Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. Ames is responsible for managing the mission, building the spacecraft and performing mission operations. NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., is responsible for managing the science instruments and technology demonstration payload, and the science operations center. Wallops is responsible for launch vehicle integration, launch services, and launch range operations. NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., manages LADEE within the Lunar Quest Program Office.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/news/ladeearrival.html
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Danderman on 06/09/2013 12:27 am

Ames is responsible for managing the mission, building the spacecraft and performing mission operations.

{snip}

NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., manages LADEE within the Lunar Quest Program Office.


I do not understand how two different field centers can do this. ???
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 06/09/2013 01:20 am
One center is responsible for the project and the other, the program, which has many projects
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 07/01/2013 05:50 pm
NASA Ames Introduces LADEE Spacecraft Animation

Published on Jul 1, 2013
NASA Ames' Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust.

LADEE's scheduled Sep. 5, 2013, launch will mark several firsts. It will be the first payload to launch on a U.S. Air Force Minotaur V rocket integrated by Orbital Sciences Corp., and the first deep space mission to launch from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility.

Credit: NASA Ames/Dana Berry
Note: Animation is silent with no audio/music track included.

For more information about the IRIS mission, please visit http://www.nasa.gov/LADEE
For more information about NASA Ames, please visit http://www.nasa.gov/ames

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wge0R-T_xBI
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 07/11/2013 06:41 pm
NASA Ames LADEE Mission - Lunar Orbital Insertion Animation

Published on Jul 11, 2013
NASA Ames' Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust. LADEE is scheduled to launch from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia on Sept. 6, 2013.

This animation is a representation of lunar orbital insertion, which is the path the spacecraft follows when it is captured by the Moon's gravity and enters lunar orbit.

Credit: NASA Ames/Dana Berry
Note: Animation is silent with no audio/music track included.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uuTWLZ3n_o
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/11/2013 06:57 pm
Looks like all components for this years Minotaur flights from MARS have either been shipped or are currently in the process of being shipped to MARS.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 07/20/2013 05:19 pm
NASA Ames LADEE Mission - Science Collection / Orbital Variation / Lunar Atmosphere

Published on Jul 19, 2013
NASA Ames' Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust. LADEE is scheduled to launch from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia on Sept. 6, 2013.

This animation is contains three shots:

1) A close up view of the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX) instrument. LDEX operates by detecting the ions generated when tiny particles of dust impact the back of the instrument at extremely high speed. The data collected will be used to calculate the mass, density, speed and electric charge of the lunar dust.

2) The variations in the orbital path flown by LADEE. The high point of the LADEE's orbit will vary between 100 and 160 kilometers, while the low point will vary between 50 and 20km above the surface of the moon.

3) A representation of the light from the sun scattering through the lunar atmosphere as LADEE flies past at sunset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y4CFJQMs4k
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jsmjr on 07/29/2013 08:20 pm
Is it too early to create a "Going to View the Launch" thread?

http://www.nasa.gov/content/see-the-launch-of-nasa-s-ladee-mission-to-the-moon/#.UfbNRm08gqY

Quote
See the Launch of NASA’s LADEE Mission to the Moon
Sept 5, 2013

NASA will host a two-day event for 50 of its social media followers on Thursday, Sept. 5, and Friday, Sept. 6, at NASA's Wallops Flight Facility, Va., for the launch of NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE).

LADEE is a robotic mission that will orbit our moon to gather detailed information about the structure and composition of the thin lunar atmosphere and determine if dust is being lofted into the lunar sky.

A thorough understanding of these characteristics of our nearest celestial neighbor will help researchers understand other bodies in the solar system, such as Mercury, outer planets’ moons and larger asteroids. The mission was developed and built at NASA’s Ames Research Center in California’s Silicon Valley.

LADEE is the first moon launch from Wallops Flight Facility and the first launch of Orbital Sciences Corporation’s Minotaur V rocket.

NASA Social participants will have the opportunity to:

    View the launch of the Minotaur V rocket carrying LADEE
    Hear first-hand accounts of the mission development and research goals from the LADEE science and engineering teams from NASA Ames and other organizations
    Get a behind-the-scenes tour Wallops Flight Facility (Note: All sites on  WFF are subject to closure due to mission requirements), including potential opportunities to:
        Tour Chincoteague Island
        View the Minotaur V launch pad
    Meet and interact with representatives from NASA and Orbital Sciences Corporation
    Meet fellow space enthusiasts who are active on social media
    Meet members of NASA's social media teams
    Touch an actual moon rock

Registration opens on this page at 5 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, July 24, and closes at 5 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, July 31.

REGISTER NOW
http://socialforms.nasa.gov/register-for-nasa-social-no-guests

 

What is a NASA Social?

A NASA Social is an informal meeting of people who use social networking sites such as Twitter, Facebook and Google+. Participants at this event will be provided a unique in-person experience at the NASA’s Wallops Flight Facility, which they are encouraged to share with others through their favorite social networks.

Guests will have an opportunity to learn more about ­­­­­­NASA and new and recent discoveries about our moon and its connection to upcoming missions to asteroids, comets and other destinations!

 

How do I register?

Registration opens at 5 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, July 24, and closes at 5 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, July 31. Check back on this page for the registration link.  Fifty participants will be randomly selected from online registrations. Registration is for one person only (you) and is non-transferable.

Additional registrants will be placed on a waiting list.

 

Do I need to have a social media account to register?

Yes. This event is designed for active social media users who follow NASA Wallops, NASA Ames, Orbital Sciences and NASA on Twitter (@NASALADEE, @NASA_Wallops, @NASAAmes, @OrbitalSciences, @NASA, @NASASocial), Facebook (NASA, Wallops, Ames, Orbital Sciences) and Google+ (NASA). The goal of a NASA Social is to allow people who regularly interact with each other via social networks to meet in person and discuss space exploration.

Users on all social networks are encouraged to use the hashtag #NASASocial. Updates and information about the event will be shared on Twitter via @NASALADEE, @NASA_Wallops, @NASAAmes and @NASASocial and via posts to Facebook and Google+.

 

What are the registration requirements?

Registration indicates your intent to travel to NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia and attend the two-day event in person. You are responsible for your own expenses for travel, accommodation, food and other amenities.

Some events and participants scheduled to appear at the event are subject to change without notice. NASA and Orbital Sciences are not responsible for loss or damage incurred as a result of attending. NASA and Orbital Sciences, moreover, are not responsible for loss or damage incurred if the event is cancelled with limited or no notice. Please plan accordingly.

Wallops is a government facility. Those who are selected will need to complete an additional registration step to receive clearance to enter the secure areas. To be admitted, you will need to show two government-issued identifications (one with a photo) that match the name provided on the registration. Those without proper identification cannot be admitted. All registrants must be at least 18 years old.

 

Can I register if I am not a U.S. citizen?

Because portions of this event may take place in restricted areas, registration is limited to U.S. citizens. If you have a green card, you will be processed as a U.S. citizen. Those who are selected will need to complete an additional registration step to receive clearance to enter the secure areas. To be admitted, you will need to show two government-issued identifications (one with a photo) that match the name provided on the registration. Those without proper identification cannot be admitted. All registrants must be at least 18 years old.

 

Does my registration include a guest?

Because of space limitations, you may not bring a guest. Each registration provides a place for one person only (you) and is non-transferable. Each individual wishing to attend must register separately.

 

What if I cannot come to Wallops?

If you cannot come to Wallops to attend in person, you should not register for the NASA Social. You can follow the conversation using the #NASASocial hashtag on Twitter. NASA may broadcast a portion of the program on Sept. 5 and 6. You can watch the launch on Sept. 6 on NASA TV or in person at the Wallops public viewing site. NASA, will provide regular launch and mission updates on @NASA and @NASALADEE and other accounts.

If you cannot make this NASA Social, don't despair; NASA is planning others in the near future at various locations. Check back on http://www.nasa.gov/social for updates.

 

When will I know if I am selected?

After registrations have been received and processed, an email with confirmation information and additional instructions will be sent to those selected and those on the waitlist. We expect to send notifications no later than Aug. 6.

If you do not make the registration list for this NASA Social, you can still attend the launch and participate in the conversation online. Find out about ways to experience the launch and participate in the mission at http://www.nasa.gov/ladee.

 

What if the launch date changes?

Hundreds of different factors can cause a scheduled launch date to change multiple times. The launch date will not be official until after the Flight Readiness Review. If the launch date changes, NASA may adjust the date of the NASA Social accordingly to coincide with the new target launch date. NASA will notify registrants of any changes by email. There is a launch opportunity for LADEE each day from Sept. 6-10, should the launch slip.

If the launch is postponed, attendees may be invited back to attend the launch at a future date.

NASA Social attendees are responsible for any additional costs they incur related to any launch delay. We strongly encourage participants to make travel arrangements that are refundable and/or flexible.

 

Does registration for and/or attendance at the NASA Social qualify me for media accreditation?

Your NASA Social registration and/or attendance does not qualify you for news media credentials at Wallops Flight Facility, now or in the future.

 

Have a question not answered here? Need more information? Help is available by sending an email to [email protected].

 

Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jongoff on 08/06/2013 11:12 pm
NASA Ames LADEE Mission - Science Collection / Orbital Variation / Lunar Atmosphere

Published on Jul 19, 2013
NASA Ames' Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust. LADEE is scheduled to launch from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia on Sept. 6, 2013.

This animation is contains three shots:

1) A close up view of the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX) instrument. LDEX operates by detecting the ions generated when tiny particles of dust impact the back of the instrument at extremely high speed. The data collected will be used to calculate the mass, density, speed and electric charge of the lunar dust.

2) The variations in the orbital path flown by LADEE. The high point of the LADEE's orbit will vary between 100 and 160 kilometers, while the low point will vary between 50 and 20km above the surface of the moon.

Are they expecting dust 50-20km up? If so, that's impressive. I definitely want to see how the numbers come back for at least one of my hairbrained schemes...

~Jon
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jacqmans on 08/15/2013 08:25 pm
MEDIA ADVISORY M13-135


NASA Hosts NASA TV News Briefing on Upcoming Lunar Mission


NASA will host a news briefing at 3 p.m. EDT Thursday, Aug. 22, at NASA Headquarters, 300 E St. SW in Washington, to discuss the agency's next, and first mission to the moon launching from the Virginia coast.

The briefing will air live on NASA Television and the agency's website.

NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) mission is scheduled to launch at 11:27 p.m. Friday, Sept. 6, from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility on Wallops Island, Va.

Data from the mission will provide unprecedented information about the environment around the moon and give scientists a better understanding of other planetary bodies in our solar system and beyond.

Briefing participants include:

Joan Salute, LADEE program executive, NASA Headquarters
Sarah Noble, LADEE program scientist, NASA Headquarters
Butler Hine, LADEE project manager, NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif.
Doug Voss, launch manager, Wallops
Don Cornwell, mission manager for the Lunar Laser Communications Demonstration, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.
Journalists unable to attend at Headquarters may ask questions at participating NASA locations, join by phone, or send questions via Twitter using the hashtag #askNASA. To participate by phone, reporters must contact Dwayne Brown at [email protected] or 202-358-1726 with media affiliation information by 2 p.m. Aug. 22.

For NASA TV streaming video, downlink and scheduling information, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

For more information about the LADEE mission, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ladee

Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Robert Thompson on 08/20/2013 03:39 am
Constraints on the origin of the Moon's atmosphere from observations during a lunar eclipse
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v377/n6548/abs/377404a0.html
9 lunar radii * 1737 km/radius = 15633km
at least
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: FXM on 08/21/2013 02:28 am
Does anyone know which roads will be closed with the upcoming launch?

http://www.wboc.com/story/23150811/gearing-up-for-nasa-wallops-first-moon-mission

I am wondering if Arbuckle Neck Road will be open or do I need to find another area.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: John44 on 08/22/2013 08:49 pm
LADEE Prelaunch Briefing
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8446
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 08/23/2013 06:37 am
A brand new Minotaur IV rocket is scheduled to launch for the first time from Wallops Flight Facility on September 7th at 03:27 UTC. This vehicle will carry NASA's LADEE (Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer) spacecraft to the Moon.

This video shows animation of the flight profile the rocket will take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMt-CQPYt14
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jacqmans on 08/23/2013 08:39 am
RELEASE 13-265


NASA Prepares for First Virginia Coast Launch to Moon


In an attempt to answer prevailing questions about our moon, NASA is making final preparations to launch a probe at 11:27 p.m. EDT Friday, Sept. 6, from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility on Wallops Island, Va.

The small car-sized Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the structure and composition of the thin lunar atmosphere and determine whether dust is being lofted into the lunar sky. A thorough understanding of these characteristics of our nearest celestial neighbor will help researchers understand other bodies in the solar system, such as large asteroids, Mercury, and the moons of outer planets.

"The moon's tenuous atmosphere may be more common in the solar system than we thought," said John Grunsfeld, NASA's associate administrator for science in Washington. "Further understanding of the moon's atmosphere may also help us better understand our diverse solar system and its evolution."

The mission has many firsts, including the first flight of the Minotaur V rocket, testing of a high-data-rate laser communication system, and the first launch beyond Earth orbit from the agency's Virginia Space Coast launch facility.

LADEE also is the first spacecraft designed, developed, built, integrated and tested at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. The probe will launch on a U.S. Air Force Minotaur V rocket, an excess ballistic missile converted into a space launch vehicle and operated by Orbital Sciences Corp. of Dulles, Va.

LADEE was built using an Ames-developed Modular Common Spacecraft Bus architecture, a general purpose spacecraft design that allows NASA to develop, assemble and test multiple modules at the same time. The LADEE bus structure is made of a lightweight carbon composite with a mass of 547.2 pounds -- 844.4 pounds when fully fueled.

"This mission will put the common bus design to the test," said Ames Director S. Pete Worden. "This same common bus can be used on future missions to explore other destinations, including voyages to orbit and land on the moon, low-Earth orbit, and near-Earth objects."

Butler Hine, LADEE project manager at Ames, said the innovative common bus concept brings NASA a step closer to multi-use designs and assembly line production and away from custom design. "The LADEE mission demonstrates how it is possible to build a first class spacecraft at a reduced cost while using a more efficient manufacturing and assembly process," Hine said.

Approximately one month after launch, LADEE will begin its 40-day commissioning phase, the first 30 days of which the spacecraft will be performing activities high above the moon's surface. These activities include testing a high-data-rate laser communication system that will enable higher rates of satellite communications similar in capability to high-speed fiber optic networks on Earth.

After commissioning, LADEE will begin a 100-day science phase to collect data using three instruments to determine the composition of the thin lunar atmosphere and remotely sense lofted dust, measure variations in the chemical composition of the atmosphere, and collect and analyze samples of any lunar dust particles in the atmosphere. Using this set of instruments, scientists hope to address a long-standing question: Was lunar dust, electrically charged by sunlight, responsible for the pre-sunrise glow above the lunar horizon detected during several Apollo missions?

After launch, Ames will serve as a base for mission operations and real-time control of the probe. NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., will catalogue and distribute data to a science team located across the country.

NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington funds the LADEE mission. Ames manages the overall mission. Goddard manages the science instruments and technology demonstration payload, the science operations center and provides overall mission support. Wallops is responsible for launch vehicle integration, launch services and operations. NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., manages LADEE within the Lunar Quest Program Office.

For more information about the LADEE mission, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ladee

Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 08/23/2013 10:28 am
LADEE Minotaur V Launch – Maximum Elevation Map

The LADEE nighttime launch will be visible to millions of spectators across a wide area of the Eastern US -weather permitting. This map shows the maximum elevation (degrees above the horizon) that the Minotaur V rocket will reach during the Sep. 6, 2013 launch depending on your location along the US east coast.

Credit: Orbital Sciences

http://www.universetoday.com/99284/nasas-ladee-lunar-probe-set-for-spectacular-science-and-september-night-launch-visible-to-millions-and-millions/
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: douglas100 on 08/23/2013 10:17 pm
Minotaur stacking operations. Don't know if this has been posted already.

http://localtvwtkr.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ladee2.jpg (http://localtvwtkr.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ladee2.jpg)
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jsmjr on 08/26/2013 03:06 pm
Catching up on some materials from last week:

Quote
NASA Hosts NASA TV News Briefing on Upcoming Lunar Mission

Aug. 15, 2013

 

LADEE Readies for Orbital Maneuvering Thruster Burn Artist's Concept
An artist's concept of NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) spacecraft orbiting the moon and preparing to fire its maneuvering thrusters to maintain a safe orbital altitude.
Image Credit:
NASA Ames/ Dana Berry

NASA will host a news briefing at 3 p.m. EDT Thursday, Aug. 22, at NASA Headquarters, 300 E St. SW in Washington, to discuss the agency's next, and first mission to the moon launching from the Virginia coast.

The briefing will air live on NASA Television and the agency's website.

NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) mission is scheduled to launch at 11:27 p.m. Friday, Sept. 6, from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility on Wallops Island, Va.

Data from the mission will provide unprecedented information about the environment around the moon and give scientists a better understanding of other planetary bodies in our solar system and beyond.

Briefing participants include:

    Joan Salute, LADEE program executive, NASA Headquarters
    Sarah Noble, LADEE program scientist, NASA Headquarters
    Butler Hine, LADEE project manager, NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif.
    Doug Voss, launch manager, Wallops
    Don Cornwell, mission manager for the Lunar Laser Communications Demonstration, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.

Journalists unable to attend at Headquarters may ask questions at participating NASA locations, join by phone, or send questions via Twitter using the hashtag #askNASA. To participate by phone, reporters must contact Dwayne Brown [email protected] or 202-358-1726 with media affiliation information by 2 p.m. Aug. 22.

For NASA TV streaming video, downlink and scheduling information, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

For more information about the LADEE mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/ladee

 

Text was issued as media advisory M13-135

Dwayne Brown, Headquarters, Washington, 202-358-1726, [email protected]

Rachel Hoover, Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., 650-604-4789, [email protected]

Keith Koehler, Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, Va., 757-824-1579, [email protected]

Recorded news conference video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTzo0Lq1-T4&feature=share&list=PL2aBZuCeDwlT56jTrxQ3FExn-dtchIwsZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTzo0Lq1-T4&feature=share&list=PL2aBZuCeDwlT56jTrxQ3FExn-dtchIwsZ)
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 08/26/2013 03:55 pm
Technical question: Is the Minotaur-V's fifth stage similar in any way to the Antares upper stage?
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 08/26/2013 04:56 pm
Technical question: Is the Minotaur-V's fifth stage similar in any way to the Antares upper stage?

The Antares upperstage is related to the Minotaur-V's first stage.  The CASTOR 30B is derived from the CASTOR 120 which was derived from the Peacekeeper first stage.   The Minotaur V fifth stage is the small Star-37, which was used on Delta II missions with less than 9 solids.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Lurker Steve on 08/26/2013 08:53 pm
Technical question: Is the Minotaur-V's fifth stage similar in any way to the Antares upper stage?

The Antares upperstage is related to the Minotaur-V's first stage.  The CASTOR 30B is derived from the CASTOR 120 which was derived from the Peacekeeper first stage.   The Minotaur V fifth stage is the small Star-37, which was used on Delta II missions with less than 9 solids.

If Antares flew with a third stage, it would also use the Star-37.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 08/26/2013 09:08 pm
Technical question: Is the Minotaur-V's fifth stage similar in any way to the Antares upper stage?

The Antares upperstage is related to the Minotaur-V's first stage.  The CASTOR 30B is derived from the CASTOR 120 which was derived from the Peacekeeper first stage.   The Minotaur V fifth stage is the small Star-37, which was used on Delta II missions with less than 9 solids.

If Antares flew with a third stage, it would also use the Star-37.

Star-48
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 08/27/2013 03:44 pm
Quote
In this photo, engineers as NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia encapsule the LADEE spacecraft into the fairing of the Minotaur V launch vehicle nose-cone. LADEE is the first spacecraft designed, developed, built, integrated and tested at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif.
http://www.nasa.gov/content/lunar-atmosphere-and-dust-environment-explorer/
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 08/27/2013 04:44 pm
Quote
In this photo, engineers as NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia encapsule the LADEE spacecraft into the fairing of the Minotaur V launch vehicle nose-cone. LADEE is the first spacecraft designed, developed, built, integrated and tested at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif.
http://www.nasa.gov/content/lunar-atmosphere-and-dust-environment-explorer/
Does anyone know in which building this integration is happening?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jsmjr on 08/27/2013 06:04 pm
Wallops has issued their NOTMAR (Notice to Mariners) for LADEE.  Of note:

Quote
"Water and marsh areas between Wallops Island and mainland also will be closed. The Army Corp Engineers Danger Zone will be in effect for all launch attempts per 33 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) Part 334. Fines and arrest authority are permissible by U.S. Coast Guard and Virginia Marine Police."

See also 33 CFR 334.130: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/334.130 (Which regulation references "Wallops Station" -- haven't heard that style elsewhere.)   

Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 08/27/2013 08:36 pm
http://www.nasa.gov/content/public-viewing-sites-established-for-nasa-ladee-moon-mission-from-wallops/#.Uh0Mdb99u-9 (http://www.nasa.gov/content/public-viewing-sites-established-for-nasa-ladee-moon-mission-from-wallops/#.Uh0Mdb99u-9)

says that the official public viewing area for the LADEE launch are "Robert Reed Park on Chincoteague or Beach Road spanning the area between Chincoteague and Assateague Islands".

they then point out that assateague beaches will be closed as of 7 pm, and that "it’s expected that the NASA Visitors Center will reach capacity early and close".

in order for the visitor's center to reach capacity and close, it's got to be open first, right?
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 08/27/2013 09:09 pm
ah, that makes sense. there seemed to be a great deal of spillover for the antares launch in april as busloads of people were ferried onto, presumably, the facility itself but were leaving their cars in the visitors center parking lot.

all one to me, as even after labor day i figure there'll be enough friday night beach traffic to give me an ETA into the area of 10 pm at the earliest. good that the've got some designated places to target the GPS, at least. :)
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Fuji on 08/28/2013 12:53 am
Minotaur V LADEE Mission Overview presentation and Launch Viewing Information
http://www.orbital.com/NewsInfo/MissionUpdates/MinotaurV/index.shtml
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grythumn on 08/28/2013 04:54 pm
http://www.nasa.gov/content/public-viewing-sites-established-for-nasa-ladee-moon-mission-from-wallops/#.Uh0Mdb99u-9 (http://www.nasa.gov/content/public-viewing-sites-established-for-nasa-ladee-moon-mission-from-wallops/#.Uh0Mdb99u-9)

says that the official public viewing area for the LADEE launch are "Robert Reed Park on Chincoteague or Beach Road spanning the area between Chincoteague and Assateague Islands".

Ick. Firing up ArcMap, those are about 12, 12.5 miles away. I wonder if they're going to close Pierce Taylor as well...

-R C
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on 08/29/2013 01:43 pm
Arbuckle Road and areas around there will not be open, nor will the Visitor Center for public viewing this time due to the time. It is unclear at this time where the public may get a good view if any.

So those roads leading to Arbuckle Road will be closed to? How far out will roads be close?

any tips on viewing? Guess I will find a field near by and just sit there and watch after it rises above the tree line.  :-\
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: SaxtonHale on 08/29/2013 08:13 pm
Me too. There might end up being quite a few people here wanting to go.

Arbuckle Road and areas around there will not be open, nor will the Visitor Center for public viewing this time due to the time. It is unclear at this time where the public may get a good view if any.

So those roads leading to Arbuckle Road will be closed to? How far out will roads be close?

any tips on viewing? Guess I will find a field near by and just sit there and watch after it rises above the tree line.  :-\
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grythumn on 08/30/2013 03:42 am
Me too. There might end up being quite a few people here wanting to go.

I took the day off, so I was going to head out Friday morning and scout out good places to watch from, and then set up my tent over on Assateague. I figure if the launch gets delayed, oh well, I get a couple of late beach days. :)

-Bob
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: apollolanding on 08/30/2013 11:58 pm
Me too. There might end up being quite a few people here wanting to go.

I took the day off, so I was going to head out Friday morning and scout out good places to watch from, and then set up my tent over on Assateague. I figure if the launch gets delayed, oh well, I get a couple of late beach days. :)

-Bob

Bob, in case you weren't aware there's no camping allowed on the VA end of Assateague.  The only camping on Assateauge is up on the northern end which you access through Ocean City, MD. 

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/chinco/generalregulations.html
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grythumn on 08/31/2013 05:02 am
I took the day off, so I was going to head out Friday morning and scout out good places to watch from, and then set up my tent over on Assateague. I figure if the launch gets delayed, oh well, I get a couple of late beach days. :)

-Bob

Bob, in case you weren't aware there's no camping allowed on the VA end of Assateague.  The only camping on Assateauge is up on the northern end which you access through Ocean City, MD. 

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/chinco/generalregulations.html


Yep, I made reservations in the MD park up there. It's a little far, and I'll probably pick somewhere closer next time, but it's already done and paid for. :)

-Bob
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/01/2013 12:08 am
NASA press kit now available:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf)
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: tokarev on 09/01/2013 05:04 pm
Why does the fifth stage need to spin?
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jarnis on 09/01/2013 05:14 pm
Why does the fifth stage need to spin?

Spin is used to stabilize rockets that do not have steering. Spun up, they keep going where they were pointed at when ignited.

Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: tokarev on 09/01/2013 05:31 pm
Thanks Jarnis for the asnwer!

For those who interested: Doug Voss from Nasa Wallops explains the spin stabilization during the NASA briefing on LADEE: http://youtu.be/hTzo0Lq1-T4?t=35m53s (http://youtu.be/hTzo0Lq1-T4?t=35m53s)
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: TJL on 09/01/2013 05:52 pm
Weather permitting I plan on watching the launch Friday evening from Long Island. We actually had a great view of Antares in April.

I was looking at the launch profile and was wondering why is there almost 4 minutes between 3rd stage burnout and 3rd stage separation?

Isn't that a long period of time to drag along that extra weight?
Thank you.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 09/01/2013 07:56 pm

Isn't that a long period of time to drag along that extra weight?
Thank you.

It isn't "dragging" if it is coasting
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Antares on 09/01/2013 09:35 pm
Also, the extra mass and moment of inertia can help limit attitude disturbances.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: TJL on 09/01/2013 10:08 pm
Thanks, Jim and Antares!
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/03/2013 03:01 am
Several photos posted include the attached, which shows the Minotaur V.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/03/2013 02:37 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/us/new-moon-probe-raises-questions-about-what-to-do-next-in-space.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130901&_r=0


August 31, 2013
New Moon Probe Raises Questions About What to Do Next in Space
By CAROLINE CHEN

The last moon mission on NASA’s current schedule — a small, unmanned spacecraft that will study moon dust and the lunar atmosphere — is scheduled to launch on Friday from Wallops Island, Va., elating scientists who study the moon but highlighting political questions about what NASA should do next.

The Smart Car-size spacecraft, which NASA calls the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer, will take 30 days to get into orbit around the moon, spend the next 30 days checking its equipment and proceed with scientific work for 100 days, searching for water molecules in the atmosphere and gathering data about the curious substance known as lunar dust. Then the probe, which goes by the acronym Ladee (pronounced laddie), will take a death plunge into the rocky surface of the subject it is studying.

The results of the scientific program could be helpful in preparing for future manned missions to the moon. Although NASA currently does not have such plans, some members of Congress have called on the space agency to return to the moon rather than pursuing its current space objectives.

SNIP

But NASA has continued sending unmanned spacecraft to the moon; the coming mission will be the third to go there in five years. While scientists are excited about what the experiment may yield, they are also concerned about the absence of future moon voyages on NASA’s schedule.

“If you’re going to fly this mission with the goal of understanding the atmosphere and how dust might affect future human missions, and you don’t have the future human missions, then part of the reason for the mission disappears,” said David Kring, senior staff scientist at the Lunar and Planetary Institute, a NASA-financed research institute in Houston.

Even if NASA sits on the sidelines, traffic to the moon will be busy. China announced last week that it would land its first exploratory rover on the moon by the end of the year. India, Japan, Russia and the European Space Agency also have unmanned missions in the works. And Google is sponsoring a competition called the Lunar X Prize, offering up to $20 million to the first company that can send a robotic spacecraft to the moon by 2015 and make it perform certain tasks.

SNIP

The spacecraft will search for water in the very thin lunar atmosphere, which is estimated to be 1/100,000th the density of Earth’s, perhaps similar to Mercury’s. Scientists want to find out how the ice on the moon’s poles managed to get there, said Richard Elphic, project scientist for the mission. They speculate that water molecules in the moon’s atmosphere may have migrated toward the poles and frozen in place, he said.

SNIP

The orbiter will also examine the movements of lunar dust. “Dust” is a bit of a misnomer, the scientists said: the crushed debris is extremely fine but also has jagged, sharp edges, since there is no wind or water on the moon’s surface to wear it down.

“It’s certainly more annoying than terrestrial dust,” said Sarah Noble, program scientist for the mission. “It’s like shards of glass, and it sticks to everything. If it gets into your eyes or your skin, it’s abrasive and it hurts. It also really gums up machinery.”

The dust poses a risk to robots and humans alike, as it can wreak havoc on equipment and spacesuits. Understanding the way the dust moves through the atmosphere will help scientists better prepare for longer missions on the moon, Dr. Elphic said.

Not everyone agrees that dust is a major concern. “Dust on the lunar surface does not pose a serious risk to future lunar exploration,” Dr. Kring said, pointing out that astronauts managed to survive the dust without major problems. But he still saw value in the dust inquiry, saying, “We always want to reduce the risk, and to understand the dust phenomenon in and of itself is worthwhile.”

NASA said the launching would break technological ground. Previously, spacecraft were custom-made for each mission and the models were not reusable. But this spacecraft was designed for assembly-line production, so that future missions could save money by using identical components.

The spacecraft’s design and construction cost $125 million out of a mission price of $250 million, said Dwayne Brown, a NASA spokesman. If the same design were used again, Mr. Brown said, NASA estimates that the cost would drop to $90 million for the first spacecraft and then over time to $55 million each. At the moment, though, NASA does not have other projects lined up to reuse the model, he said.

SNIP
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/03/2013 02:41 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/us/new-moon-probe-raises-questions-about-what-to-do-next-in-space.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130901&_r=0

"NASA said the launching would break technological ground. Previously, spacecraft were custom-made for each mission and the models were not reusable. But this spacecraft was designed for assembly-line production, so that future missions could save money by using identical components."

That's the kind of statement that really requires a footnote. There have been numerous efforts in the past to try and design "assembly line" spacecraft. It really only works for spacecraft that have a relatively high production rate, like comsats. It has never worked for science spacecraft, because usually there are many years between projects, and by the time you go to build another one, subcontractors have gone out of business, alloys have changed, parts are no longer in use or certified, etc.

In addition, no two science spacecraft are ever the same (unless they are joint spacecraft, like some of the solar explorers). So although LADEE is going to the Moon, the same bus may not work at Venus or Mars because of different thermal and power environments.

It just doesn't work out. Even efforts to design common spacecraft buses have floundered.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/03/2013 02:50 pm
NASA press kit now available:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf)

For some reason Firefox is giving me an "untrusted connection" warning for that site. But I tried Google and it took me to the same site, so I suspect that there is something wrong with NASA's coding. I downloaded the file, but it is 23 megs for a relatively small pdf.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: robertross on 09/03/2013 03:44 pm
NASA press kit now available:

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/LADEE-Press-Kit-08292013.pdf)

For some reason Firefox is giving me an "untrusted connection" warning for that site. But I tried Google and it took me to the same site, so I suspect that there is something wrong with NASA's coding. I downloaded the file, but it is 23 megs for a relatively small pdf.

I had a similar warning message with IE.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 09/03/2013 04:20 pm
The above information indicates public viewing will not be allowed closer than an absurdly far 10 miles, at least with a view.

My gut feeling here, is they are overly concerned with people clogging up small streets or treading on private land, so the solution is to direct everyone to a wide open area (by comparison) despite it being so far away.

...oy. won't have time to worry about commercial shipping traffic (inevitably) threatening the launch; i'll be too preoccupied with trying to get to the right parking lot in time.

i ended up going to arbuckle for the antares demo launch on april 21st, but the previous attempt/scrub on april 17th seemed to have *quite* a large number of spillover traffic parked outside the fence on the side of 175/chincoteague road in front of the visitor center after they closed the gate, which probably pose hazards of various types.

delaware north may still have the parking placard templates that were used at KSCVC...
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: BlueSpace on 09/03/2013 04:30 pm
Hey guys, me and a couple friends were thinking about driving up and watching this at Wallops, what would be the best time to get there in order to get a good view of the launch? This will be our first time watching a launch.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 09/03/2013 08:51 pm
Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer: Mission Overview (Updated)

Published on Sep 3, 2013
NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a robotic mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the lunar atmosphere, conditions near the surface and environmental influences on lunar dust. Scheduled to launch from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia on Sept. 6, 2013, LADEE is the first spacecraft designed, developed, built, integrated and tested at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif.

The video presents the reasons for the mission, the science of the mission and how the public can help the LADEE team with its collection of data as LADEE orbits the Moon. This version of the video contains an updated section on the science instruments aboard the spacecraft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyW5QiqftYE
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rayleighscatter on 09/03/2013 10:17 pm
"In partnership with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Accomack County Board of Supervisors and the Town of Chincoteague, visitors to the area may view the launch from Robert Reed Park on Chincoteague or Beach Road spanning the area between Chincoteague and Assateague Islands.

The two sites will feature the LADEE launch countdown live and NASA personnel will be on hand to discuss the LADEE mission. In addition, a live broadcast of the launch operations will be shown on a big-screen projector in Robert Reed Park beginning at 9:30 p.m. on the day of launch."

from http://esc.gsfc.nasa.gov/267/278/279/468.html
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/04/2013 03:45 am
I've seen a number of reports that this will be the first launch to send a payload beyond Earth orbit from Wallops Island.  Although this is a first lunar mission for Wallops, it is not correct, as I understand things, to say that the Minotaur V launch itself will send LADEE beyond Earth orbit. 

After the Minotaur V Star 37FM fifth stage burns out, LADEE will separate into a highly elliptical earth orbit.  The spacecraft will gradually propel itself through a series of similar elliptical "phasing orbits" over several weeks before it finally begins to approach the Moon.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: block51 on 09/04/2013 11:35 am
The above information indicates public viewing will not be allowed closer than an absurdly far 10 miles, at least with a view.

My gut feeling here, is they are overly concerned with people clogging up small streets or treading on private land, so the solution is to direct everyone to a wide open area (by comparison) despite it being so far away.

That's pretty much right. I've heard that the farmer that owns all the land down near the water on Arbuckle Neck Rd was none too happy about people getting stuck in his fields and generally (reportedly...) messing things up during the Antares launch. If he wanted to make some money he'd charge 20 bucks a head for parking. A car's worth of area must be worth 20 bucks of crops. For that matter he might only have field cover planted right now.

Ok, sorry for the slight derail. Check out jsmjr's map from the Antares viewing thread for some ideas on where to try and watch the launch from. http://goo.gl/maps/7SDDv

Granted there is a fair amount of Antares specific info, but I'm pretty sure people can figure it out.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jacqmans on 09/04/2013 03:51 pm
MEDIA ADVISORY M13-143

NASA Announces Media, Public Events for Upcoming Lunar Mission Launch

NASA's schedule of events, including news conferences and live television coverage related to the Friday, Sept. 6 launch of the agency's next lunar mission, is now available.

The Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) spacecraft will launch from the Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport's Pad 0B at NASA's Wallops Flight Facility on Wallops Island, Va. Launch is targeted for 11:27 p.m. EDT at the opening of a four-minute launch window. NASA Television launch coverage begins at 9:30 p.m. Backup launch opportunities occur Sept. 7-10.

NASA will host two prelaunch news conferences at the NASA Wallops Visitor Center on Thursday, Sept. 5. NASA TV and the agency's website will air the briefings live with question and answer capability available from participating NASA centers or by using a phone bridge. To participate via phone bridge, journalists must call Dwayne Brown at 202-329-6585 by 2:45 p.m. Thursday. Questions also can be asked during the briefings via Twitter by using the hashtag #askNASA.

Live NASA TV launch coverage also will be broadcast on the Toshiba Vision screen in New York's Times Square from 10:30 p.m. Sept. 6 to 1 a.m. Sept. 7. The Toshiba Vision screen is positioned directly below the world-famous New Year’s Eve Ball on One Times Square. Visitors to Times Square, and around the world, can hear live audio of the broadcast by tuning into Third Rock Radio. Third Rock Radio can be streamed from the NASA homepage, and on smart phones and tablets through the Tuneln mobile app.


EVENT SCHEDULE (All times Eastern)

Thursday, Sept. 5

10-11:30 a.m.: NASA Social TV broadcast featuring presentations on how to get involved with the mission, as well as an informal question and answer session with NASA leadership and members of the LADEE team.   

3 p.m.: Prelaunch news briefing. Participants will include:
-- John Grunsfeld, associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters, Washington
-- S. Pete Worden, center director, NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif.
-- Bill Wrobel, center director, Wallops
-- Sarah Dougherty, test director, Wallops
-- Butler Hine, LADEE project manager, Ames

4 p.m.: LADEE science/technology briefing. Participants will include:
-- Sarah Noble, LADEE program scientist, NASA Headquarters
-- Rick Elphic, LADEE project scientist, Ames
-- Don Cornwell, Lunar Laser Communications Demonstration mission manager, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.

Friday, Sept. 6: Launch Day

9:30 p.m.: Live launch coverage on NASA TV. To view launch coverage via the Web and for more information about the LADEE mission, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ladee


9:30 – 11:35 p.m.: Prelaunch webcast on NASA EDGE, live from Wallops and featuring experts discussing the LADEE mission. During the webcast, viewers can ask questions via social media using the hashtag #askNASA. To watch the live webcast, visit:

http://www.ustream.tv/nasaedge

Saturday, Sept. 7

Approximately two hours after launch, NASA TV will air a post-launch news conference.

MEDIA ACCREDITATION

For questions about accreditation or additional information, contact Keith Koehler at [email protected] or 757-824-1579.

LADEE is the first spacecraft designed, developed, built, integrated and tested at Ames.  The spacecraft will launch on a U.S. Air Force Minotaur V rocket, an excess ballistic missile converted into a space launch vehicle and operated by Orbital Sciences Corp. of Dulles, Va.
LADEE is a robotic research mission that will orbit the moon to gather detailed information about the structure and composition of the thin lunar atmosphere and determine whether dust is being lofted into the lunar sky.

For real-time launch and mission updates via social media, follow @NASA and @NASALADEE on Twitter.

For NASA TV streaming video, downlink and scheduling information, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: block51 on 09/04/2013 05:06 pm
The above information indicates public viewing will not be allowed closer than an absurdly far 10 miles, at least with a view.

My gut feeling here, is they are overly concerned with people clogging up small streets or treading on private land, so the solution is to direct everyone to a wide open area (by comparison) despite it being so far away.

That's pretty much right. I've heard that the farmer that owns all the land down near the water on Arbuckle Neck Rd was none too happy about people getting stuck in his fields and generally (reportedly...) messing things up during the Antares launch. If he wanted to make some money he'd charge 20 bucks a head for parking. A car's worth of area must be worth 20 bucks of crops. For that matter he might only have field cover planted right now.

Ok, sorry for the slight derail. Check out jsmjr's map from the Antares viewing thread for some ideas on where to try and watch the launch from. http://goo.gl/maps/7SDDv

Granted there is a fair amount of Antares specific info, but I'm pretty sure people can figure it out.

I will be interested in seeing what happens at this Antares then, if they plan to help the locals and shut the road now.

Right! For better or worse, the details of a lot of things around here (Eastern Shore of VA) don't really seem to be known all that far in advance and even when they are known they are subject to change (for the better or worse) the day of.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/05/2013 01:34 pm
Right! For better or worse, the details of a lot of things around here (Eastern Shore of VA) don't really seem to be known all that far in advance and even when they are known they are subject to change (for the better or worse) the day of.
Wallops and the local authorities are going to have to step it up a notch, whether they want to or not.  People in larger numbers are going to come to these launches, especially the Antares liftoffs. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Lurker Steve on 09/05/2013 04:20 pm
Right! For better or worse, the details of a lot of things around here (Eastern Shore of VA) don't really seem to be known all that far in advance and even when they are known they are subject to change (for the better or worse) the day of.
Wallops and the local authorities are going to have to step it up a notch, whether they want to or not.  People in larger numbers are going to come to these launches, especially the Antares liftoffs. 

 - Ed Kyle

I don't see any other Minotaur V launches on Salo's schedule. This might be an opportunity to see the first and only launch of this configuration rocket.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: John44 on 09/05/2013 04:58 pm
NASA Social for LADEE Mission Live from the Wallops Flight Facility
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8464
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Alpha Control on 09/05/2013 05:07 pm
Is there an AM or FM broadcast frequency that locals can tune to for live launch coverage?
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: block51 on 09/05/2013 05:09 pm
Wallops and the local authorities are going to have to step it up a notch, whether they want to or not.  People in larger numbers are going to come to these launches, especially the Antares liftoffs. 
 - Ed Kyle

That's a very good point, and they are doing a phenomenal job with LADEE considering the small group the PAO has. They are also doing a lot of coordination with the town of Chincoteuage and I would assume the National seashore people (Asseateauge) in order to get some viewing places setup for large groups of people where they actually are planing on simulcasting the NASA tv broadcast.

That being said, I'm sure they are always wanting to improve and a big area in which they could do that (I think) is to provide for a closer public viewing area. The problem is that they don't really own any of the close land that isn't being used for VIPs, so they'll have to engage the public and try and convince them to let people use that land. I think a great way to do that would be to encourage the land owners to allow access for charging a nomial parking fee (say 10 bucks a car?). Appealing to the "We are getting more people interested in this area which means more money being injected into the area" probably isn't going to appeal to many of the farmers that own the land that people want to be on. That's just my 2 cents based on my observations gained while having lived in the area for 4 years.

At the end of the day, I'll always have my friend that likes to throw launch parties even for sounding rockets so I'm pretty set. It's only about 3.5 to 3 miles away from the pads. So I'm set.

On another note, I am getting super excited about this launch. Started seeing people in the cafeteria today that are badged with some kind of LADEE credentials. I'm curious to see how WFF ends up dealing with 1300+ VIPs.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: block51 on 09/05/2013 05:14 pm
Is there an AM or FM broadcast frequency that locals can tune to for live launch coverage?
"Information on upcoming missions and updates during launch countdowns are available in the Wallops area on radio station 760 AM." Coverage and updates on this channel are ok-ish at best in my experience.

If I'm not at my friends house (i.e. where I can get Internet or NASA TV coverage for bigger launches) we usually rely on people who work on base coming to wherever we are watching it from having a radio that they can listen in on.

You can also try listening in on marine band channel 16 (I think? It might be 17 or 18) if you have a marine radio or scanner. Wallops Surveillance tends to be talking to the surveillance vessels on this channel and they generally will keep them up to date.

Finally, you can try 96.5 FM. They are a local Chincoteauge radio station that will very likely be covering this event live. Also available online at http://965ctg.com/
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 09/05/2013 05:38 pm
See LADEE Launch!

Published on Sep 5, 2013
NASA hosted 50 of it's social media followers on September 5 and 6 for a behind the scenes look at activities leading up to the launch of the agency's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) mission.

LADEE is a robotic mission that will orbit our moon to gather detailed information about the structure and composition of the thin lunar atmosphere and determine if dust is being lofted into the lunar sky.

A thorough understanding of these characteristics of our nearest celestial neighbor will help researchers understand other bodies in the solar system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dXheNicK4s
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Alpha Control on 09/05/2013 05:58 pm
Is there an AM or FM broadcast frequency that locals can tune to for live launch coverage?
"Information on upcoming missions and updates during launch countdowns are available in the Wallops area on radio station 760 AM." Coverage and updates on this channel are ok-ish at best in my experience.

If I'm not at my friends house (i.e. where I can get Internet or NASA TV coverage for bigger launches) we usually rely on people who work on base coming to wherever we are watching it from having a radio that they can listen in on.

You can also try listening in on marine band channel 16 (I think? It might be 17 or 18) if you have a marine radio or scanner. Wallops Surveillance tends to be talking to the surveillance vessels on this channel and they generally will keep them up to date.

Finally, you can try 96.5 FM. They are a local Chincoteauge radio station that will very likely be covering this event live. Also available online at http://965ctg.com/

Thanks Block51! Much appreciated. My brother has a weekend house in Chincoteague, but he may be just arriving near launch time, so the radio info is most helpful.

And this will help me on the 17th, as I plan to drive down there for the Antares launch.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/05/2013 06:18 pm
Minotaur V revealed with gantry rollback on September 4. 
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html#.UijLiH_py2D

They went a bit sticker crazy with this one!

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: John44 on 09/05/2013 07:53 pm
LADEE Prelaunch Mission Briefing
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8467
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jcm on 09/05/2013 07:54 pm
The Orbital mission booklet has a very nice ascent profile table that gives almost, but not quite, enough information to understand the trajectory - they are just
missing the flight path angle.  As best I can guess, stage 3 is suborbital
but stage 4 should reach an orbit somewhere in the range
200 x 700 km to 200 x 1600 km.

Do we have NOTAMs for the launch? Where is stage 3 going to splash?
Does anyone know the Stage 4 planned orbit?
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rtphokie on 09/05/2013 08:18 pm
The Orbital mission booklet has a very nice ascent profile table that gives almost, but not quite, enough information to understand the trajectory - they are just
missing the flight path angle.  As best I can guess, stage 3 is suborbital
but stage 4 should reach an orbit somewhere in the range
200 x 700 km to 200 x 1600 km.

Do we have NOTAMs for the launch? Where is stage 3 going to splash?
Does anyone know the Stage 4 planned orbit?


The NOTMARs are far more informative about splashdown zones for the stages.  The Google Earth file on Orbital's site also has the trajectory for each stage's descent.

http://www.orbital.com/NewsInfo/MissionUpdates/MinotaurV/files/LADEE-Viewing.zip
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: John44 on 09/05/2013 08:53 pm
LADEE Mission Science and Technology Demonstration Briefing
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8468
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/05/2013 11:22 pm
How quickly does stage 1 burn out? I looked at the press kit and it says stages 1-3 burn for 203 seconds, but doesn't split them up.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/05/2013 11:30 pm
How quickly does stage 1 burn out? I looked at the press kit and it says stages 1-3 burn for 203 seconds, but doesn't split them up.

Given that the first 3 stages comes straight from the Peacekeeper, you might try to use the Minotaur IV launches as a reference (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/09/orbital-minotaur-launch-tacsat4/) - 1st stage should burn out at ~57 seconds with the 2nd stage immediately ignites following separation.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: IanO on 09/06/2013 12:59 am
From the illustration on the Minotaur V fact sheet, it appears the vehicle is slightly taller than the 23.88 meter Minotaur IV.  Does anyone know the exact height of the Minotaur V?
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 09/06/2013 02:21 am
"NASA's visitor center on Va. 175, a popular spot for watching rocket launches from the Wallops Flight Facility, will be closed to the public to accommodate at least 1,000 VIPs expected by the space agency."

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/08/launch-may-start-something-big-eastern-shore

"The town will run shuttle buses from the high school to the official viewing sites, one on the Assateague Bridge and one at Robert Reed Park on Main Street. The road to the bridge between the town and Assateague will be closed at 9 p.m. Friday to allow viewers to stand or sit along the pavement."

this may seem obtuse, but i genuinely can't tell from the way they're phrasing it -- do you think this means that the *buses* to assateague bridge will stop running at 9, or that it'll shut to all other traffic but the buses will keep running a little longer?

between normal friday night rush hour and bridge and beach traffic (i work outside of dc) and the inevitable slowdown into chincoteague itself (pretty much the whole island is 25 mph on an uncrowded day), i'm starting to wonder if it's even physically possible to make it onto the island by 9 pm, let alone make my way to a parking space and get in line for a bus.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grakenverb on 09/06/2013 07:12 am
How to see the Minotaur launch if you live along the east coast.

http://www.universetoday.com/104515/how-to-see-the-historic-ladee-nightime-moon-shot-on-sept-6/
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jsmjr on 09/06/2013 11:33 am
I think buses start at 9. Not sure when they stop. It is not clear whether you can go to these sites without buses (if they allow parking there on your own or not). Your best bet is to call the visitor center and ask for more details.

The following was posted to the Twitter feed of Chincoteague NWR (https://twitter.com/ChincoteagueNWR/status/375609567020736513)

LADEE ROCKET LAUNCH
1. The launch is scheduled for Friday, September 6 at 11:27 p.m.
2. Assateague Island will be CLOSED for this event.
3. The main public viewing areas in Chincoteague will be:
• Maddox Blvd/Beach Road, east of McDonalds on the road and elevated bike path.
• Robert Reed Waterfront Park, located on Main Street
4. There will be VERY LIMITED parking in the viewing areas.
Maddox Blvd. east of the traffic circle will close at 9 PM to all vehicular traffic. Please avoid the fuss, ride the bus!
5. The Pony Express will be operating on the Green Route for the event.
6. In addition, the Town of Chincoteague will offer a free shuttle service from the Chincoteague High School to Robert Reed Park and the Maddox Blvd. Traffic Circle beginning at 9 PM. Visitors and citizens should use this free service.
7. Busses will run three routes connecting the parking area at Chincoteague High School with locations throughout town (see map on reverse side)
8. After the launch there will be four lines at the traffic circle on Maddox Blvd. One will be the Pony Express line and three will be for shuttle service each on their respective route and each route will go to the Chincoteague High School.
9. This additional service is being provided by the Pony Express and the Town of Chincoteague to help alleviate traffic and parking problems. Please use the service as there will not be any parking allowed on the road.
10. If necessary, the service will be available on Saturday, September 7 beginning at 9 PM as the back-up launch date is that day at 11:26 PM.
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jsmjr on 09/06/2013 11:48 am
Check out jsmjr's map from the Antares viewing thread for some ideas on where to try and watch the launch from. http://goo.gl/maps/7SDDv  Granted there is a fair amount of Antares specific info, but I'm pretty sure people can figure it out.

Thanks for the shout out.  I've finally updated the map with LADEE-specific annotations including closures.  Speaking of which:

Arbuckle Road and areas around there will not be open, nor will the Visitor Center for public viewing this time due to the time. It is unclear at this time where the public may get a good view if any.

Here's the official announcement.  (http://www.co.accomack.va.us/about-us/news/-item-48)  It certainly makes it sound like the only road being closed is Arbuckle itself.  Please comment if you learn differently:

August 30, 2013

Contact: Doug Jones
Deputy Emergency Management Coordinator
757-789-3610
[email protected]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

On September 6 at 11:27 p.m. NASA is planning a LADEE Rocket Launch.

Due to the danger area projected for this launch Arbuckle Rd. will be closed to the general public. Persons residing on Arbuckle Road will be permitted to travel to their homes with proper identification.

The roadway will be closed at 8 p.m. and will not reopen until after the launch or area is considered safe again.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2013 12:06 pm
Moved for live coverage.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spectre9 on 09/06/2013 12:36 pm
I found the good stuff.

Very satisfying. All the gory detail, if only a certain new space company provided images like this...  :P

Too big for my slow internet to upload here.

Go fetch.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/orbitalsciences/



Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Matt_W on 09/06/2013 01:28 pm
Spacefight101 has a great overview of the mission trajectories for LADEE:

http://www.spaceflight101.com/ladee-mission-and-trajectory-design.html

Question: Does anyone know why this mission isn't using one of the lunar frozen orbits (http://"http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/06nov_loworbit/") to extend the mission length?

P.S. First post. Hello everyone!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: runaground on 09/06/2013 01:36 pm
Matt_W: welcome!   :)

As I understand it, the LADEE mission requirements are such that the orbit inclination makes a frozen orbit impossible.  See this .pdf for some further details:

www.applieddefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2011-Craychee-Design_Method_For_Low_Altitude_Lunar_Orbits.pdf
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Antares on 09/06/2013 01:51 pm
Yeah, there's not a brief answer to that question.  That SF101 page actually has the best description I could find.  The best sections to read are "LADEE Orbit Design & Requirements" and "Science Phase."  Long life isn't effective if it's not the right orbit for the science requirements.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Matt_W on 09/06/2013 02:15 pm
Thanks much for the responses! That mission pdf states it outright:"LADEE’s lunar orbit requirements exclude frozen orbits as possible candidates. Folta & Quinn sum up their findings: 'There exist real solutions only when i > 39.23 degrees. There are no closed-form analytical solutions for frozen orbits below this value of critical inclination.'"

Strange that the NASA website says there are frozen orbits at 27 degrees; I'd like to see that paper by Folta & Quinn, but can't find an un-paywalled version.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/06/2013 02:16 pm
Am I correct that this will be the first ever inter-planetary launch by a rocket made of second-hand stages directly from a once-active missile? (notice that while many early interplanetary launches used rockets directly derived from ICBM/IRBMs, the stages were ordered first-hand for space launch uses)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 09/06/2013 02:35 pm
Am I correct that this will be the first ever inter-planetary launch by a rocket made of second-hand stages directly from a once-active missile? (notice that while many early interplanetary launches used rockets directly derived from ICBM/IRBMs, the stages were ordered first-hand for space launch uses)

Nope, Clementine used a Titan II missile
Title: Livestream?
Post by: StealerofSuns on 09/06/2013 02:51 pm
Does anyone know if there will be a livestream of this?
Title: Re: Livestream?
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/06/2013 02:52 pm
Does anyone know if there will be a livestream of this?

It, of course, will be on NASA TV.  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Thorny on 09/06/2013 03:02 pm
Am I correct that this will be the first ever inter-planetary launch by a rocket made of second-hand stages directly from a once-active missile? (notice that while many early interplanetary launches used rockets directly derived from ICBM/IRBMs, the stages were ordered first-hand for space launch uses)

Did Athena use new-build stages or ex-Peacekeeper stages for Lunar Prospector?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Skyrocket on 09/06/2013 03:20 pm
Am I correct that this will be the first ever inter-planetary launch by a rocket made of second-hand stages directly from a once-active missile? (notice that while many early interplanetary launches used rockets directly derived from ICBM/IRBMs, the stages were ordered first-hand for space launch uses)

Did Athena use new-build stages or ex-Peacekeeper stages for Lunar Prospector?

Athena uses new-build stages.
Title: Re: Livestream?
Post by: jsmjr on 09/06/2013 03:31 pm
Does anyone know if there will be a livestream of this?

It, of course, will be on NASA TV.  ;)

Among the places you should be able to watch the NASA TV livestream is here:  http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv   
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 09/06/2013 04:27 pm
I think buses start at 9. Not sure when they stop. It is not clear whether you can go to these sites without buses (if they allow parking there on your own or not). Your best bet is to call the visitor center and ask for more details.

The following was posted to the Twitter feed of Chincoteague NWR (https://twitter.com/ChincoteagueNWR/status/375609567020736513)

incredibly helpful, thank you! i can go the speed limit after all!  8)

Quote
It certainly makes it sound like the only road being closed is Arbuckle itself.

on the other hand, hmmmmmm... assawoman sure is nice this time of year...  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: block51 on 09/06/2013 06:23 pm
You can always try the Assawoman post office parking lot. It isn't huge (nor is the post office) but it aught to provide a decent place to watch from.  http://goo.gl/maps/bbAxc

Edit 1: I mean it won't be open, but it's a public place to park that isn't someone's personal property. There is a slight possibility that Wright's Seafood restaurant will stay open for the launch.

Edit 2: No joy on Wright's Seafood. Just called them and they are closing at 6:30 pm. Sigh... eastern shore.

Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grakenverb on 09/06/2013 10:16 pm
I'm lucky to be spending the last night of my vacation in Cape May, New Jersey, we should have an awesome view!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 09/06/2013 10:59 pm
two hours later and i'm still not at the bridge yet.

i'm afraid exploring closer options may be out for me;at this rate it'll be a race to the official public viewing areas further north.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: patmamu on 09/06/2013 11:18 pm
two hours later and i'm still not at the bridge yet. (only one lane is getting across; it's a two-way traffic night.)

i'm afraid exploring closer options may be out for me;at this rate it'll be a race to the official public viewing areas further north.

If you stay on 50 it will dump off in ocean city about 30 miles from launch. The southern tip has water surrounding so no obstructions. That's where me and my family planning on catching the launch assuming the clouds clear out a bit more. If you need help finding your way around the area just pm me, Ill be checking from time to time here for the launch coverage.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2013 11:25 pm
Orbital Sciences ‏@OrbitalSciences 5m
First weather report from the launch team for #Minotaur V @NASALADEE mission. After 10:00 p.m. only 5% probability of violation.  Or 95% go!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grythumn on 09/06/2013 11:59 pm
Old mainland ferry has good view but filling up fast. Approved by rso. Have some pics but no bw.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: zerm on 09/07/2013 12:42 am
I'll be watching from the pier across the street from my home on Chesapeake Bay. Clear sky- as they said in "The Reluctant Astronaut... "CAVU should hold all down the range."
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: TJL on 09/07/2013 01:14 am
I'll be watching from my backyard on Long Island. With a clear sky forecast, I expect to see an awesome show!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Orbiter on 09/07/2013 01:20 am
Minotaur V looking lovely this evening to support LADEE's trip to the moon.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 01:35 am
Not sure but I think I saw headlights approaching the pad on the NASATV feed. Commentator now on says nominal for launch.
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 01:36 am
Weather briefing is "clean and green" at one hour and fifty one minutes. Looks like a good night for a launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/07/2013 01:39 am
Sitting on the boardwalk in Belmar, NJ hoping to catch a glimpse...
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/07/2013 01:42 am
I'm in the northern Philadelphia suburbs, and the weather is clear.

My computer room is on the second floor of my house, and I figure it will take me about 20-30 seconds to get outside.  I plan to have my shoes on, the door unlocked, and my binoculars ready to grab.  I'll watch the first 10 seconds after liftoff on NASA TV, then hightail it outside.

Go Minotaur!  Go LADEE!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: kevin-rf on 09/07/2013 01:45 am
Why when I search The Cow Jumped Over the Moon can I not find find the Party Thread?

Go Orbital! Go Minotaur! Go LADEE!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: JimOman on 09/07/2013 01:53 am
Anyone have a link to a stream without the PAO commentary?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 01:56 am
Another in-depth preview/overview article by William Graham:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/09/orbitals-minotaur-v-launch-ladee-mission-moon/


Need everyone to focus on updates only now.

Coverage will be appreciated as I'm not sure how much coffee I can take in one night. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: ChrisC on 09/07/2013 02:05 am
I'll watch the first 10 seconds after liftoff on NASA TV, then hightail it outside.

Note that the internet streams can be severely buffered, meaning well behind real time.  In my experience, 30 seconds is common.  Watch for a real time clock in the streaming video (not the countdown clock) and then compare that to your own clock to determine the lag.

EDIT:  I just measured 26 second lag on the Ustream feed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Prober on 09/07/2013 02:18 am
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: robertross on 09/07/2013 02:23 am
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: robertross on 09/07/2013 02:34 am
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: JimOman on 09/07/2013 02:47 am
I'll watch the first 10 seconds after liftoff on NASA TV, then hightail it outside.

Note that the internet streams can be severely buffered, meaning well behind real time.  In my experience, 30 seconds is common.  Watch for a real time clock in the streaming video (not the countdown clock) and then compare that to your own clock to determine the lag.

NASA EDGE reports a 7 second lag from the Ustream to realtime for people planning on doing this...
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 02:49 am
Orbital Sciences ‏@OrbitalSciences 4m
We are at step 53 of 125 of final countdown list.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 02:50 am
Zero percent chance of weather violation.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 02:51 am
T-35 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 02:58 am
And on to step 64.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 02:59 am
Under T-30 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Prober on 09/07/2013 03:02 am
while time permits....
this launch under other times 90's would be launched via the Delta II correct?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:06 am
T-20 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:07 am
Step 78 complete.

Weather Green.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:11 am
Final Launch Readiness poll is GO, step 78.1
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:13 am
LV team is working no issues
SV team is working no issues
Range is clear for launch
Spacecraft final configuration in work, ready to go to internal power
Step 79, T-14 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:14 am
T-12 mins.

Step 81.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:15 am
Flight computer loaded with the T-0 time (as advertised).

Launch sequencer will take over at T-120 seconds.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:18 am
T-10 minutes, FTS checks in work
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:19 am
FTS transferred to internal power, checks completed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:20 am
And that takes us to Step 100.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:20 am
Step 99 FTS is GO
Step 100 Spacecraft configuration is GO
T-6 minutes, 30 seconds

Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:22 am
T-5 mins.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:22 am
Avionics internal power is on
Step 104, 105
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:23 am
Range Green.

Step 115.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:24 am
Standing by for step 116 at T-2 minutes when count is completely under control of launch computer
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:25 am
T-120 seconds.

On to the sequencer.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:26 am
T-60 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:27 am
T-10 seconds
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:27 am
There it goes!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:27 am
LAUNCH!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:28 am
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 09/07/2013 03:28 am
hard to believe that a payload could sustain that quick a launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:28 am
Staging. 1-2 sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:28 am
Nominal
Systems are performing as expected
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/07/2013 03:28 am
Wow, Minotaur doesn't mess around! Takes off like a bat out of hell and stages without taking a breath!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:28 am
Stage 2 nominal.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:29 am
All nominal.
Stage 2 burnout
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:29 am
Stage 2 burnout
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:29 am
Staging.

2-3 Sep.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:30 am
Stage 3 nominal.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:30 am
Fairing jettison confirmed
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:30 am
Stage three motor pressure is nominal
Vehicle attitude is nominal
Fairing separation is confirmed
T+3 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:30 am
Good third stage performance.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:31 am
Staging.

Third stage burnout. Fourth stage will be +440 seconds.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:31 am
Stage 3 burnout
Guidance solution converged
Waiting for Stage 4 TIG
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: dsmillman on 09/07/2013 03:32 am
Just saw about 2 minutes of launch from NYC.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:32 am
6km per second.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spectre9 on 09/07/2013 03:32 am
205km!!

That was quick.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:32 am
125 seconds to Stage 4 ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:32 am
440 second coast before stage four ignition
vehicle avionics and power systems are nominal
FTS is disabled as planned
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:33 am
TDRS Transmitter powered on
Tracking through Bermuda
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:34 am
This graph reminds me of the ISRO PSLV launch profiles.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:34 am
1700 kms downrange already! ;D
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:34 am
Stage 3 sep. Stage 4 ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:35 am
Stage 4 TVC powered up
ORBNAV reinitialised
3-4 Sep
Stage 4 ignition confirmed
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:35 am
6.8 kms per seconds velocity.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/07/2013 03:35 am
That was awesome!  I caught sight of it about 60 seconds after launch, and followed it until third stage burnout.  Through binoculars I could see the orange flame and the smoke trail.  Nice puff of smoke at third stage ignition.

I was using handheld binoculars, so it looked like a wildly oscillating orange squiggle.  But it was easily visible to the naked eye as well.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: TJL on 09/07/2013 03:36 am
I'll be watching from my backyard on Long Island. With a clear sky forecast, I expect to see an awesome show!

Unbelievable view here....super clear sky with bright orangey-maroon flame and contrail!!  Go LADEE!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:37 am
Dropped tracking through Bermuda, now on TDRSS
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:37 am
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:38 am
3600 Km downrange
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 09/07/2013 03:38 am
Edit: From My balcony in Charlottesville, VA
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: kevin-rf on 09/07/2013 03:39 am
Incredible launch to watch from up here in Sterling MA. Saw Second and Third stage burnout, incredible orange fireball!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:41 am
Nominal performance ahead of staging.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:41 am
Staging. 4-5.

Fifth stage spin up.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:44 am
Fifth stage ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: D_Dom on 09/07/2013 03:46 am
altitude 200 km traveling 10.5 Km/s
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: mheney on 09/07/2013 03:46 am
Saw the launch here in Silver Spring, MD.  (I may have to turn in my space geek badge - my fellow band members knew about the viewing opportunity, and I didn;t ...)  Reaaly visible first stage once it got above the trees; saw burnout and full second stage burn before it dropped back below our horizon.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:48 am
T+21 mins.

Despin next.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:49 am
Ron, that is some vantage point you had there. Great shots.

De-spin initiated.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:49 am
Despin initiated.

Nominal flight profile.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/07/2013 03:50 am
Orbital parameters are within requirements!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: ChrisC on 09/07/2013 03:50 am
If you post pictures of launch (e.g. as seen from your home) please post your location.

RonSmytheIII, Washington DC area?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:51 am
LADEE S/C Sep!

Congrats to all concerned!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AJA on 09/07/2013 03:51 am
LADEE sep confirmed
Payload orbital parameters nominal.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 09/07/2013 03:52 am
"God speed on your journey to the Moon LADEE"
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/07/2013 03:52 am
Sep confirmed! Congratulations, everything nominal!

Nominal!

Reminds me of this song:

do-dooo-dododo. ma-Nominal. do-do-do-do. ma-Nominal...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKd0JC17XJY

ma-Nominal. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spectre9 on 09/07/2013 03:52 am
Congrats to Orbital and the Minotaur V team.

Well done.

Great coverage by NASA, really enjoyed the checklist.

Wouldn't mind seeing one of these in daytime. All I saw was a huge flash and off it went.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: JBF on 09/07/2013 03:53 am
Gratz Orbital.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: lookingup on 09/07/2013 03:53 am
Great view here in Philly.  Saw the first stage drop away and the second stage burn.  Very exciting!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: StealerofSuns on 09/07/2013 03:54 am
Watched the live stream of this launch with a friend while on the band bus!

Awesome! Congrats orbital/NASA
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: baldusi on 09/07/2013 03:56 am
Congratulation Orbital! Another nominal debut ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: catdlr on 09/07/2013 03:57 am
[Minotaur V] Launch of LADEE on Inaugural Minotaur V Rocket


Published on Sep 6, 2013
The very first Minotaur V rocket successfully launched today from Wallops Flight Facility, September 7th 2013 at 03:27 UTC. The rocket carried NASA's LADEE (Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer) into orbit. LADEE will study the lunar exosphere and dust in the Moon's vicinity for a mission duration of 100 days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MY03vmkps
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2013 03:59 am
William Graham's article updated for post launch:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/09/orbitals-minotaur-v-launch-ladee-mission-moon/
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: iontyre on 09/07/2013 04:01 am
Watched it live from Belcamp, Harford County MD.  Very bright first stage burn, MECO, and then second stage ignition.  Left a clearly visible smoke trail visible for several minutes in the dark sky.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: BrianNH on 09/07/2013 04:06 am
Just saw the launch from southern New Hampshire.  From the charts of what to expect, we were only expecting it to be about 10 degrees above the horizon, but it was more like 20-25.   

It was a much better view than we were expecting.  After a few seconds it faded away and we thought that was the end.  But then it flared back to life for quite a while longer and I realized that we were seeing one of the stage separations.

It's awesome to be able to see a rocket launch from your own neighborhood.    8)

Congratulations Orbital.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/07/2013 04:12 am
Great view here in Philly.  Saw the first stage drop away and the second stage burn.  Very exciting!

I'm in the Philly suburbs.  I think we saw the second and third stage burns.  I first caught sight of it about 60 seconds after launch, and the first stage had already separated by then.

Watching the video, the second stage ignited immediately at first stage burnout, but there was a brief coasting period between second stage burnout and third stage ignition.  I saw that, along with a puff of smoke when the third stage lit.

Howdy, neighbor!  Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: ChrisC on 09/07/2013 04:15 am
Anybody want to describe what we see in the plume during the stage 1 -> 2 separation event at about ...27:55 in the video?  Does Stage 2 ignite and just shove Stage 1 back?  Interstage debris a couple seconds later?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spaceradiotv on 09/07/2013 04:18 am
Here in Columbus NJ we saw it. Actually my wife, the non-space geek saw it first.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on 09/07/2013 04:20 am
I was in campground at 6.7 miles. Fllight almost went right over our heads. Got a beautiful video. Will post later . All but third stage. Lost track during the cosdt. It  was great seeing the spent stages tumbling back down  the whooe time she was flying off
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: knotnic on 09/07/2013 04:22 am
From rooftop in NW Washington DC, a really nice sight - just as predicted via the Google Earth trajectories.  I caught it very bright from just after liftoff, and using 7x50 binocs followed it up to about 13 deg elevation and then back down until it faded into horizon haze after during 2nd stage coast. Could see 1st stage falling away for a bit too.  Brighter and more of a plume visible on first two stages than ORS1 two years ago.  I was expecting it to be similar to an airplane's wingtip lights, but at liftoff, it was much brighter, more like a bright red version of a nearby plane's landing light. Saw some smoke trail but that wasn't very visible from here.

Got a good set of pictures, will post later. Video was brief and poor quality since I was more interested in seeing it through the binoculars.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on 09/07/2013 04:24 am
Sorry phone. Add to last post please. ? But i swear i could smell it several minutes lster. Definitly not camp fire fums
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ike17055 on 09/07/2013 04:31 am
Saw it surprisingly well in the mountains of northern Pa at about 2000 ft elevation.  Felt like about two minutes of flight time maybe, reached much higher in sky than we expected. Looked great. What a treat.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/07/2013 04:54 am
Absolutely brilliant from the beach in Belmar, NJ!  Didn't expect it to look so close! 
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/07/2013 05:09 am
Whoops!  I spotted an error in William Graham's article.

Quote
The first stage burn lasted 56.93 seconds, after which the stage was jettisoned and the second ignited immediately to begin its 78.44-second burn. At second stage burnout, stage separation and third stage ignition occurred immediately.

Actually, there was about a 20 second coast phase between second stage burnout and third stage ignition.

But from watching the video, it looked like there was no delay at all between first stage burnout and second stage ignition.  Did the second stage perform a "fire in the hole" ignition?  As an earlier commenter remarked, I could see something falling away to the side after the second stage ignited.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: chewi on 09/07/2013 05:31 am
Launch video from Orbital Sciences

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RLOB9EwVrc
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: John44 on 09/07/2013 06:00 am
LADEE Launch
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8471
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 06:28 am
Was at Wallops. Here is the VIP viewing area pre-launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 06:28 am
The projected NASA TV on the building wall.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 06:30 am
NASA TV at Wallops. This is the briefing room, and also the makeshift control center for NASA TV.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 06:31 am
My poor attempt to capture a streak shot with my camera. It was not this bright.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 06:33 am
Smoke trail after the launch.

Viewing from the Wallops VIP location was outstanding. It took off directly in front of us and then climbed up to the left and over our left shoulders. We could clearly see first stage sep and second stage ignition and then sep. We could also see an impressive smoke trail after first stage sep.

Low roar, not very loud.

More pictures of Wallops after I sleep.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spacedog71 on 09/07/2013 06:34 am
"it should emerge just to the right of that grove of trees", i told somebody in the assawoman post office parking lot just before the launch.

GOD i loves me some google earth.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Garrett on 09/07/2013 06:35 am
Caught the end of the post-launch press conference. The spacecraft switched itself to safe mode after it detected a higher current than expected when turning on the reaction wheels.
The spacecraft is in great condition otherwise, on a perfect trajectory to the Moon and the engineers expect to "iron out" this reaction wheel issue before they reach the Moon.
Thanks to the solar panel design (on spacecraft body and not on extended panels) they are in no big rush to iron out the issue. They have about 15 days to work on solutions to get LADEE into the correct attitude.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: John44 on 09/07/2013 06:55 am
LADEE Post Launch News Conference
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8473

 Complete Launch Coverage and Commentary on LADEE Mission
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8472
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: GClark on 09/07/2013 06:59 am
At the Virginia Beach oceanfront, we could see a glow just over the horizon as soon as the 1st stage ignited.  It came into view very quickly (as soon as it cleared the tower would be my guess) and could be seen all the way through 3rd stage burnout.  All staging events were impressively obvious.

Just like the TacSat-2 launch, it pretty much stopped the boardwalk in its' tracks.  Sorry, no pics (the camera in my phone isn't that sensitive and the boardwalk is lit up like...).
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: chewi on 09/07/2013 07:09 am
More photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ladee/pool
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: mdo on 09/07/2013 08:34 am
As best I can guess, stage 3 is suborbital but stage 4 should reach an orbit somewhere in the range  200 x 700 km to 200 x 1600 km.

Do we have NOTAMs for the launch? Where is stage 3 going to splash?
Does anyone know the Stage 4 planned orbit?

Haven't seen a TLE yet - my post launch estimate for the Star 48 engine is 200 x 750 km. Based on the livestream one can deduce a vertical v-component of -0.2 km/s or fpa=-1.5 deg and C3=-29.1 km2/s2 at burnout. No idea what to put for the error bar though and what an RCS blowdown might have done to the orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: plutogno on 09/07/2013 09:38 am
speaking of trivia, I think lunar missions have now been launched from every continental US "cosmodrome", right?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 09/07/2013 10:28 am
My congratulations  8) !

NASA TV Coverage (From T-90 Min)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EENtcA3Fk34
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: mshaffer on 09/07/2013 10:34 am
I took a video of it from my apartment here in NW Washington DC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAfbjrro_Uk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAfbjrro_Uk)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Artyom. on 09/07/2013 11:12 am
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/07/2013 12:18 pm
Congrats, well done! Thanks for the great coverage! :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: pippin on 09/07/2013 12:51 pm
Anybody got any details on the spindown issue?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: psloss on 09/07/2013 01:00 pm
Nice shot by Ben Cooper from...uh...:
http://www.launchphotography.com/LADEE.html
Title: Re: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jcm on 09/07/2013 01:03 pm
As best I can guess, stage 3 is suborbital but stage 4 should reach an orbit somewhere in the range  200 x 700 km to 200 x 1600 km.

Do we have NOTAMs for the launch? Where is stage 3 going to splash?
Does anyone know the Stage 4 planned orbit?

Haven't seen a TLE yet - my post launch estimate for the Star 48 engine is 200 x 750 km. Based on the livestream one can deduce a vertical v-component of -0.2 km/s or fpa=-1.5 deg and C3=-29.1 km2/s2 at burnout. No idea what to put for the error bar though and what an RCS blowdown might have done to the orbit.


Thanks, I concur on your estimate of the Star 48 orbit, but with large error bars and yes, the RCS blowdown issue affects things. Still no TLEs at this time.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 01:32 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 01:33 pm
Bunch of photos from displays in the Wallops visitor center. This was just after Charlie Bolden, his wife, and a bunch of other NASA VIPs had cleared out, so I could take more photos. It was packed only a few minutes before.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 01:36 pm
A few more pics from the Visitor's Center just after the mucky mucks cleared out. They all went outside to stand on a little podium and talk about how important LADEE was, etc. I didn't get any photos of that. It was really dark outside. No exterior lighting.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 01:38 pm
The Mister Wippee ice cream truck outside the Visitor's Center. This is some kind of Wallops tradition. There was a long line to the truck in the hours before the launch. I didn't see Bolden with an ice cream cone.

It was comfortable outside. Maybe mid-60s. No mosquitoes. Clear skies. Perfect weather for watching the launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/07/2013 01:44 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.
It has a Renault engine, so maybe it smelled like burnt French fries..?  :D
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/07/2013 01:52 pm
Great view here in Philly.  Saw the first stage drop away and the second stage burn.  Very exciting!

I'm in the Philly suburbs.  I think we saw the second and third stage burns.  I first caught sight of it about 60 seconds after launch, and the first stage had already separated by then.

Actually, I take back what I said.  If you had a high enough vantage point and a clear horizon, you would have seen the first stage staging.  I was on the street with a tree in the way.  In fact, I caught my first glimpse through the tree.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: block51 on 09/07/2013 01:53 pm
"it should emerge just to the right of that grove of trees", i told somebody in the assawoman post office parking lot just before the launch.

GOD i loves me some google earth.

Ha, I was at the house right next door to you.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 02:41 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.
It has a Renault engine, so maybe it smelled like burnt French fries..?  :D

It's a kind of chemical smell. Not bad, just kinda odd. There was a long line of traffic off the island after the launch, meaning that I did not get to Rt. 13 until after 1 am, and I spent most of it stuck behind this car.

All things considered, Wallops did a pretty good job of accommodating a lot of guests--probably around 1000 (over 1400 were expected). They could have used a countdown clock at the viewing area, and a better PA system (or at least a speaker near the viewing area). One funny thing is that most people were monitoring the countdown via cellphone (with very weak signals) and that was lagging the actual countdown. So when the pad lit up, it happened about 10-15 seconds earlier than most of us were expecting. It was a bit of a surprise.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: docmordrid on 09/07/2013 02:42 pm
SpaceNews reports the computer shut down LADEE'S reaction wheels

http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/37108spacecraft-glitch-mars-ladees-otherwise-spectacular-nighttime-launch
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rayleighscatter on 09/07/2013 03:07 pm
My poor attempt to capture a streak shot with my camera. It was not this bright.
You and me photographed the same nuclear apocalypse, although mine was from the Chincoteague-Assateague causeway.

It was interesting to see the second (first?) stage tumbling back down in flames, and a bright flash from when it presumably slammed into the ocean.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: TJL on 09/07/2013 03:18 pm
I'll be watching from my backyard on Long Island. With a clear sky forecast, I expect to see an awesome show!

Unbelievable view here....super clear sky with bright orangey-maroon flame and contrail!!  Go LADEE!!

I was kind of surprised between 2nd stage shutdown and 3rd stage ignition. There was about a 20 second gap between the two events, but when the 3rd stage lit, it was with a huge "puff of smoke". Minotaur 5 / LADEE really put on a great show for the East coast!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/07/2013 03:22 pm
An impressive display of Reagan-era Cold War technology, augmented by bits and pieces of Shuttle era PAM and Burner and Taurus and Pegasus. The work of Thiokol and Aerojet and Hercules and Martin Marietta and ATK and Orbital, much of it more than three decades ago.  All composite, I think.  High energy solids, some with extendible nozzles.  High thrust to weight ratio off the pad.  Reliable. 

114 MX missiles were built, for a $20 billion program.  51 were launched.  Six Minotaur 4/5 launches have now occurred.  An additional three SR-118 (MX missile first stage) motors were used by Taurus.  During all that time, only one failure occurred on an MX flight (a staging failure in 2001).

And here is LADEE, a Ranger/Lunar Orbiter class payload launched by an 88 tonne all-solid fuel rocket, something that once required a 155+ tonne Atlas Agena.

Perhaps 50 more MX stage sets remain, maybe less, but ATK recently completed a test program that demonstrated brand new, modernized MX type motors.  Minotaur 4/5/6 can do seriously useful work, and the flight record shows solid reliability.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: mheney on 09/07/2013 03:28 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.

There's often a DeLorean parked in the lot where I work at Goddard - I'd bet this is the same car.  (There are actually 2 of them that show up on campus, but I've only seen the one used as a "drive to work" car ...)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/07/2013 03:49 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.
It has a Renault engine, so maybe it smelled like burnt French fries..?  :D

It's a kind of chemical smell. Not bad, just kinda odd. There was a long line of traffic off the island after the launch, meaning that I did not get to Rt. 13 until after 1 am, and I spent most of it stuck behind this car.

All things considered, Wallops did a pretty good job of accommodating a lot of guests--probably around 1000 (over 1400 were expected). They could have used a countdown clock at the viewing area, and a better PA system (or at least a speaker near the viewing area). One funny thing is that most people were monitoring the countdown via cellphone (with very weak signals) and that was lagging the actual countdown. So when the pad lit up, it happened about 10-15 seconds earlier than most of us were expecting. It was a bit of a surprise.

Yea, I think I know the exact smell you’re talking about. It’s acrid and pungent and kind of stings your eyes and irritates your nose and throat. I had a couple of Datsun 240Z’s from the 70’s that did that and my Mazda RX-7 rotaries are pretty much known for that...

That lag in the transmission must have caught a few folks trying to take photos by surprise as well. It probably added to the excitement!  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: EE Scott on 09/07/2013 03:58 pm
An impressive display of Reagan-era Cold War technology, augmented by bits and pieces of Shuttle era PAM and Burner and Taurus and Pegasus. The work of Thiokol and Aerojet and Hercules and Martin Marietta and ATK and Orbital, much of it more than three decades ago.  All composite, I think.  High energy solids, some with extendible nozzles.  High thrust to weight ratio off the pad.  Reliable. 

114 MX missiles were built, for a $20 billion program.  51 were launched.  Six Minotaur 4/5 launches have now occurred.  An additional three SR-118 (MX missile first stage) motors were used by Taurus.  During all that time, only one failure occurred on an MX flight (a staging failure in 2001).

And here is LADEE, a Ranger/Lunar Orbiter class payload launched by an 88 tonne all-solid fuel rocket, something that once required a 155+ tonne Atlas Agena.

Perhaps 50 more MX stage sets remain, maybe less, but ATK recently completed a test program that demonstrated brand new, modernized MX type motors.  Minotaur 4/5/6 can do seriously useful work, and the flight record shows solid reliability.

 - Ed Kyle

Nice background and perspective, thank you.  It brings me back to the late 70s and early 80's, when the MX program was being debated by Congress, and generally, there was just a lot more going on in Aerospace and Defense to get excited about.  I appreciate how good we (the U.S.) got in solid rocket motor capabilities in the 70s and 80s, and that was over 30 years ago.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: SaxtonHale on 09/07/2013 04:24 pm
"it should emerge just to the right of that grove of trees", i told somebody in the assawoman post office parking lot just before the launch.

GOD i loves me some google earth.

I was there too! That was an incredible spot, I was able to track it with my telescope. Pretty sure it is going to be a million times more crowded for Antares.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/07/2013 04:28 pm
Definitely a beautiful launch. Maybe we should do more East Coast launches like that, get people interested in what's going on.

I suspect the improvement in using a smaller lunch vehicle for the same size payload has a lot to do with trajectory optimization and improvements and guidance. Whenever you are going to the moon, Low energy WSB trajectories make a lot of sense, can reduce required delta-v by 10-25%. That counts as a lot of payload.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: baldusi on 09/07/2013 05:06 pm
High energy orbit + 5 stages = smaller vehicle. That's the Rocket Formula working for you. If they weren't using surplus military stages, this would be an unaffordable vehicle. Besides, I suspect that those stages use the sort of military propellant that's simple not viable for civilian rockets. Military propellant detonates.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: LegendCJS on 09/07/2013 05:14 pm
High energy orbit + 5 stages = smaller vehicle. That's the Rocket Formula working for you. If they weren't using surplus military stages, this would be an unaffordable vehicle. Besides, I suspect that those stages use the sort of military propellant that's simple not viable for civilian rockets. Military propellant detonates.

There is no distinction between the propellants that former ICBM solid stages are allowed to use vs other solid rocket stages based on one being "military" or not. 

Please explain what you mean. Are you saying "civilian" rocket fuel can't be made to detonate? Are you talking about solid or liquid fuel? Are you saying that military rockets can and are fueled with high explosives?  You mention high energy and we (or at least the rest of us) all know the highest energy fuel in use is LH2 and oxygen, which is certainly used by civilian rockets....  What exactly are you saying?  Its hard to tell what you mean because on the face of it your comment is senseless except the line about surplus military hardware being affordable.

Edit: I take it back. You were right in the past (see mlinder's comment below), but it seems there and been a law change and and the military is trying to move away from detonation hazard fuels. The difference in chosen fuel families is now only a matter of cost and not legality, as military hardware is willing to splurge for the new higher energy stuff non-detonation hazard fuel.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 09/07/2013 05:17 pm
Definitely a beautiful launch. Maybe we should do more East Coast launches like that, get people interested in what's going on.

Easy, just move all of the KSC/CCAFS rockets to Wallops.....

Seems like a great idea

Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: mlindner on 09/07/2013 05:29 pm
High energy orbit + 5 stages = smaller vehicle. That's the Rocket Formula working for you. If they weren't using surplus military stages, this would be an unaffordable vehicle. Besides, I suspect that those stages use the sort of military propellant that's simple not viable for civilian rockets. Military propellant detonates.

There is no distinction between the propellants that former ICBM solid stages are allowed to use vs other solid rocket stages based on one being "military" or not. 

Please explain what you mean. Are you saying "civilian" rocket fuel can't be made to detonate? Are you talking about solid or liquid fuel? Are you saying that military rockets can and are fueled with high explosives?  You mention high energy and we (or at least the rest of us) all know the highest energy fuel in use is LH2 and oxygen, which is certainly used by civilian rockets....  What exactly are you saying?  Its hard to tell what you mean because on the face of it your comment is senseless.

Higher energy has no implication on detonation. LH2 and oxygen do not detonate from shock AFAIK unless the shockwave causes heating enough to activate. I haven't heard that military fuel detonates any more than standard solid rocket fuels (see PEPCO plant).

Edit: Was wrong, military uses HMX which is explosive hazard 1.1 (meaning it can detonate if it gets hit by another explosive), its also used in the peacemaker missiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-fuel_rocket#Performance
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 09/07/2013 07:00 pm
Any update on the reaction wheel shut-down? What's the spacecraft's current status?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: zerm on 09/07/2013 07:03 pm
We're 89 miles away looking over Chesapeake Bay and it was stunning.

To me it looked as if the vapor-trail like cloud was left by the thrid stage. It was very apparent and hung around for a long time. Did anyone else see that from stage 3? It seemed as if the booster would be too high for such a trail.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: hop on 09/07/2013 07:14 pm
Any update on the reaction wheel shut-down? What's the spacecraft's current status?
https://twitter.com/worden
Quote
It appears the @NASALADEE start up issues have been resolved. Guess we just had to burp the baby
Or the long version: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: ChrisC on 09/07/2013 08:28 pm
Anybody want to describe what we see in the plume during the stage 1 -> 2 separation event at about ...27:55 in the video?  Does Stage 2 ignite and just shove Stage 1 back?  And then is that interstage debris a couple seconds later?

Anybody?  Here's the staging event, cued up in time to a couple seconds prior.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MY03vmkps&t=1m03s
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 09/07/2013 08:32 pm
Anybody want to describe what we see in the plume during the stage 1 -> 2 separation event at about ...27:55 in the video?  Does Stage 2 ignite and just shove Stage 1 back?  And then is that interstage debris a couple seconds later?

Anybody?  Here's the staging event, cued up in time to a couple seconds prior.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MY03vmkps&t=1m03s

Was it the first stage interacting with the second stage plume as it tumbled away?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/07/2013 08:41 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.

There's often a DeLorean parked in the lot where I work at Goddard - I'd bet this is the same car.  (There are actually 2 of them that show up on campus, but I've only seen the one used as a "drive to work" car ...)

Seems like a good guess. He had a black "Antique Car" license plate on the back. I thought it was a VA plate, not MD. Relatively young guy driving it. I gotta say that as much as I like the overall shape of the DeLorean, the choice of stainless steel for the body was not necessarily a good one (and some of the other parts don't look so great). This car looked a bit beat up, and that's partly because stainless steel looks, like a friend of mine said, like a kitchen sink. The "DeLorean" name on the back is also a very early 1980s type cartoonish font that looks ridiculous now--like so many attempts at being futuristic back in 1980.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Moe Grills on 09/07/2013 10:47 pm
  While technically not a commercial launch to the Moon,
since LADEE is a NASA mission, I'm positive this is the first
time that a rocket that is primarily meant for commercial
launches, Minotaur, has sent a payload to the Moon; Hughes Corporation's
remarkable achievement decades ago not withstanding.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: baldusi on 09/07/2013 11:23 pm
High energy orbit + 5 stages = smaller vehicle. That's the Rocket Formula working for you. If they weren't using surplus military stages, this would be an unaffordable vehicle. Besides, I suspect that those stages use the sort of military propellant that's simple not viable for civilian rockets. Military propellant detonates.

There is no distinction between the propellants that former ICBM solid stages are allowed to use vs other solid rocket stages based on one being "military" or not. 

Please explain what you mean. Are you saying "civilian" rocket fuel can't be made to detonate? Are you talking about solid or liquid fuel? Are you saying that military rockets can and are fueled with high explosives?  You mention high energy and we (or at least the rest of us) all know the highest energy fuel in use is LH2 and oxygen, which is certainly used by civilian rockets....  What exactly are you saying?  Its hard to tell what you mean because on the face of it your comment is senseless except the line about surplus military hardware being affordable.

Edit: I take it back. You were right in the past (see mlinder's comment below), but it seems there and been a law change and and the military is trying to move away from detonation hazard fuels. The difference in chosen fuel families is now only a matter of cost and not legality, as military hardware is willing to splurge for the new higher energy stuff non-detonation hazard fuel.
I'll parse it in parts, just to clarify.
Quote
High energy orbit + 5 stages = smaller vehicle. That's the Rocket Formula working for you.
High energy orbit (TLI is, almost, escape). Nothing to do with propellants. The original comparison to Atlas-Agena was a 2.5 stages vehicle to a 5 stages vehicle. Because of the way the Rocket's Formula works, to high energy orbits, the high number of stages rules. Of course isp might not be that high (I don't know, really, MX is not exactly open source), but many stages make a huge difference. LEO would probably be very different. In fact, Minotaur IV would have been used for LEO.

Quote
If they weren't using surplus military stages, this would be an unaffordable vehicle.
Generally speaking, each stage is a development and a line of production, thus, price per stage is, generalizing, sort of similar. In other words, you'd expect that a five stage rocket would cost somewhere around 2.5 times a 2 stage rocket, at similar technology. Again, I'm generalizing. Since the first 3 stages are surplus, they don't have to pay development, production and, probably, not even storage. Without that huge "subsidy", the rocket would probably double its cost.

Quote
Besides, I suspect that those stages use the sort of military propellant that's simple not viable for civilian rockets. Military propellant detonates.
Look into HMX, as you say. I'd recommend that you read this thread from this post onward (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31297.msg1024472#msg1024472).

And just for the effect of HMX, enjoy this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SgvDkzy2bCM
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Danderman on 09/07/2013 11:35 pm
  While technically not a commercial launch to the Moon,
since LADEE is a NASA mission, I'm positive this is the first
time that a rocket that is primarily meant for commercial
launches, Minotaur, has sent a payload to the Moon; Hughes Corporation's
remarkable achievement decades ago not withstanding.

AFAIK, excess US military assets such as ICBMs are barred from use in the commercial market.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: majormajor42 on 09/07/2013 11:45 pm
Here in Columbus NJ we saw it. Actually my wife, the non-space geek saw it first.

My wife spotted it first too here up in the northern suburbs of NYC.


Interesting how much of a bigger deal this launch was for the Northern areas of the East Coast than Antares was. Nighttime, staging solids, "to the Moon" perhaps all contributed to the excitement. Considering the megacity that is the NE, perhaps these Wallops launches can help out NASA's cause with additional awareness.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: hartspace on 09/08/2013 01:05 am
  While technically not a commercial launch to the Moon,
since LADEE is a NASA mission, I'm positive this is the first
time that a rocket that is primarily meant for commercial
launches, Minotaur, has sent a payload to the Moon

Actually, Athena 2 launched Lunar Prospector to the moon in 1998.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/08/2013 01:24 am
The original comparison to Atlas-Agena was a 2.5 stages vehicle to a 5 stages vehicle. Because of the way the Rocket's Formula works, to high energy orbits, the high number of stages rules. Of course isp might not be that high (I don't know, really, MX is not exactly open source), but many stages make a huge difference. LEO would probably be very different. In fact, Minotaur IV would have been used for LEO.
The Minotaur 5 stages had the following vacuum ISP in seconds, from Stage 1 to Stage 5:  282, 309, 300, 292, 299.  By comparison, Atlas Agena D had booster vacuum ISP = 294 sec, vernier ISP = 316 sec, and Agena ISP = 300 sec. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: knotnic on 09/08/2013 03:00 am
Finally figured out how to combine my 15-second exposures into a single image.  Here is the launch from NW Washington DC.

EDIT: Corrected exposure time
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Tcommon on 09/08/2013 03:07 am
Anybody want to describe what we see in the plume during the stage 1 -> 2 separation event at about ...27:55 in the video?  Does Stage 2 ignite and just shove Stage 1 back?  And then is that interstage debris a couple seconds later?
Anybody?  Here's the staging event, cued up in time to a couple seconds prior.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MY03vmkps&t=1m03s
Was it the first stage interacting with the second stage plume as it tumbled away?

I think so; http://youtu.be/RHlYc_MzvLk?t=2m37s
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/08/2013 03:41 am
I think so; http://youtu.be/RHlYc_MzvLk?t=2m37s
Note also in that video the test of second stage ignition, which shows that the motor ignites even before the extendible nozzle section extends!  That's part of why staging happens so fast.  They (the MX developers) were pushing hard, no expense spared, to capture every possible tenth of a meter per second delta-v from this hardware. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: a_langwich on 09/08/2013 04:28 am
The original comparison to Atlas-Agena was a 2.5 stages vehicle to a 5 stages vehicle. Because of the way the Rocket's Formula works, to high energy orbits, the high number of stages rules. Of course isp might not be that high (I don't know, really, MX is not exactly open source), but many stages make a huge difference. LEO would probably be very different. In fact, Minotaur IV would have been used for LEO.
The Minotaur 5 stages had the following vacuum ISP in seconds, from Stage 1 to Stage 5:  282, 309, 300, 292, 299.  By comparison, Atlas Agena D had booster vacuum ISP = 294 sec, vernier ISP = 316 sec, and Agena ISP = 300 sec. 

 - Ed Kyle

What's the comparison on liftoff T/W? 

The Minotaur clears the pad in a hurry.

Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: chewi on 09/08/2013 08:23 am
What is the total height of the Minotaur V? Couldn't find this information on the Orbital site...
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 09/08/2013 12:52 pm
  While technically not a commercial launch to the Moon,
since LADEE is a NASA mission, I'm positive this is the first
time that a rocket that is primarily meant for commercial
launches, Minotaur, has sent a payload to the Moon; Hughes Corporation's
remarkable achievement decades ago not withstanding.

This is a refurbished ICBM and not a commercial vehicle.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/08/2013 01:06 pm
What is the total height of the Minotaur V? Couldn't find this information on the Orbital site...

From the press kit (page 9):

Quote
The launch vehicle is slightly more than 80.59 feet tall (24.56 meters) tall.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Garrett on 09/08/2013 03:06 pm
Quote
https://twitter.com/NASA/status/376417334329880576
NASA @NASA 6:51 PM (GMT) - 7 Sep 13
.@NASALADEE's reaction wheels were successfully brought back on-line. Get the latest as LADEE heads to the moon at http://www.nasa.gov/ladee
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: chewi on 09/08/2013 03:19 pm
What is the total height of the Minotaur V? Couldn't find this information on the Orbital site...

From the press kit (page 9):

Quote
The launch vehicle is slightly more than 80.59 feet tall (24.56 meters) tall.

Thanks!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/08/2013 03:29 pm
From the press kit (page 9):

Quote
The launch vehicle is slightly more than 80.59 feet tall (24.56 meters) tall.

Thanks!

The way they phrased that is a little odd.  They give a figure precise to two decimal places, then say it's "slightly more" than that.

According to my calculator that works out to 80' 7.08".  So what is it really?  7.09"?  8"?  Why not just say "approximately 80 1/2 feet tall"?   ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/08/2013 07:17 pm
The way they phrased that is a little odd.  They give a figure precise to two decimal places, then say it's "slightly more" than that.

According to my calculator that works out to 80' 7.08".  So what is it really?  7.09"?  8"?  Why not just say "approximately 80 1/2 feet tall"?   ;)

ITAR wiggle room.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/08/2013 11:31 pm
The original comparison to Atlas-Agena was a 2.5 stages vehicle to a 5 stages vehicle. Because of the way the Rocket's Formula works, to high energy orbits, the high number of stages rules. Of course isp might not be that high (I don't know, really, MX is not exactly open source), but many stages make a huge difference. LEO would probably be very different. In fact, Minotaur IV would have been used for LEO.
The Minotaur 5 stages had the following vacuum ISP in seconds, from Stage 1 to Stage 5:  282, 309, 300, 292, 299.  By comparison, Atlas Agena D had booster vacuum ISP = 294 sec, vernier ISP = 316 sec, and Agena ISP = 300 sec. 

 - Ed Kyle

What's the comparison on liftoff T/W? 

The Minotaur clears the pad in a hurry.
My estimate is more than 2.5 for Minotaur 5 and something like 1.35-ish for Atlas Agena D.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Prober on 09/09/2013 12:53 am
Any update on the reaction wheel shut-down? What's the spacecraft's current status?
https://twitter.com/worden (https://twitter.com/worden)
Quote
It appears the @NASALADEE start up issues have been resolved. Guess we just had to burp the baby
Or the long version: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)
Would someone please tell the National news media everything is fine.    Just saw the eve national news and they report the problem.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/09/2013 03:34 am

https://twitter.com/worden (https://twitter.com/worden)
Quote
It appears the @NASALADEE start up issues have been resolved. Guess we just had to burp the baby
Or the long version: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)

Would someone please tell the National news media everything is fine.    Just saw the eve national news and they report the problem.

Those two links don't indicate that "everything is fine." NASA still has not explained why the problem happened and how they will make sure that it will not happen again. I'm not saying that anything is wrong, but "we've solved the issue" could only mean "we've solved the issue for now, but it could happen again." I will await more information.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: LaunchedIn68 on 09/09/2013 01:48 pm
I went outside on Friday night to view the launch from here on Long Island NY.  I was not disappointed!  I figured it would be a dim glow and probably wouldn't clear the trees.  Instead it was about 3 fists above the horizon, above the trees and rooftops, with the trailing flame and smoke trail clearly visible!  It dimmed out for staging (2nd/3rd) and became a dim glow in the SE sky.  It was still visible during fairing separation then I lost it.

What was the inclination for this launch?

Will future Antares launches be visible from NY?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/09/2013 02:01 pm
I went outside on Friday night to view the launch from here on Long Island NY.  I was not disappointed!  I figured it would be a dim glow and probably wouldn't clear the trees.  Instead it was about 3 fists above the horizon, above the trees and rooftops, with the trailing flame and smoke trail clearly visible!  It dimmed out for staging (2nd/3rd) and became a dim glow in the SE sky.  It was still visible during fairing separation then I lost it.

What was the inclination for this launch?

Will future Antares launches be visible from NY?

37.65 degrees according to Orbital's press kit.

As for launch visibility of Antares from Long Island - see the map below (from the A-ONE launch; future ISS launches will fly in the same direction).
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/09/2013 03:46 pm
I went outside on Friday night to view the launch from here on Long Island NY.  I was not disappointed!  I figured it would be a dim glow and probably wouldn't clear the trees.  Instead it was about 3 fists above the horizon, above the trees and rooftops, with the trailing flame and smoke trail clearly visible!  It dimmed out for staging (2nd/3rd) and became a dim glow in the SE sky.  It was still visible during fairing separation then I lost it.

What was the inclination for this launch?

Will future Antares launches be visible from NY?

37.65 degrees according to Orbital's press kit.

As for launch visibility of Antares from Long Island - see the map below (from the A-ONE launch; future ISS launches will fly in the same direction).
That's awesome. Looks like, what, almost a fifth of the population of the US will be able to see it, even if it's low to the horizon? Rich, influential people, too.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: LaunchedIn68 on 09/09/2013 05:15 pm
It was awesome!  My first launch viewing and I didn't leave my driveway! 

The LADEE viewing chart had me in the 15 deg zone and it was well above the trees.  That Antares chart says 10 deg but I'm sure it will be just as good.  For the next shot weather permitting I'll head down to my sister's on the Great South Bay for an unobstructed view.  I'll make it a launch party with simulcast curtouesy of the ipad and NASA TV.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 09/09/2013 11:08 pm

Apologies if someone linked this Popular Mechanics article earlier, but I just saw it:

Wallops Island:  The Little Spaceport That Could (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/news/wallops-island-the-little-spaceport-that-could-15892294?click=pm_latest)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: spectre9 on 09/10/2013 05:02 am
I went outside on Friday night to view the launch from here on Long Island NY.  I was not disappointed!  I figured it would be a dim glow and probably wouldn't clear the trees.  Instead it was about 3 fists above the horizon, above the trees and rooftops, with the trailing flame and smoke trail clearly visible!  It dimmed out for staging (2nd/3rd) and became a dim glow in the SE sky.  It was still visible during fairing separation then I lost it.

What was the inclination for this launch?

Will future Antares launches be visible from NY?

37.65 degrees according to Orbital's press kit.

As for launch visibility of Antares from Long Island - see the map below (from the A-ONE launch; future ISS launches will fly in the same direction).
That's awesome. Looks like, what, almost a fifth of the population of the US will be able to see it, even if it's low to the horizon? Rich, influential people, too.

There's only one district that matters when it comes to NASA.

Schedule launches while they're congregating on the hill  :P
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: majormajor42 on 09/10/2013 05:41 am

Will future Antares launches be visible from NY?

The last one was. I saw it from Queens.  Since I was standing in a different location than LADEE (further north) it is hard to compare the inclinations. My impression of Antares from Queens, at the time, was that it was higher than I thought it would be. It helped to be on top of a 12 story building though. It was very exciting as this was the first time I ever saw a rocket launch.

Now I can say, to be honest, that Antares was less impressive than Minotaur though. Antares was a daytime launch of a liquid rocket. So the only thing I was able to see was it making a little wisp of contrail when it went through a certain part of the upper atmosphere, like an airplane but only across a fist or two (10-20 degrees) of the sky, for about 25 seconds. A solid rocket like Minotaur has a very smoky plume that would be easier to see in the daytime. Dan, an aviation photographer in Brooklyn, got some great shots of Antares with a very powerful lens.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/grink/8668981981/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grink/8668981981/)

Antares at night (the next one on 17th is at 11am though) would be a lot easier to see than a daytime launch from so far away. But Minotaur was so bright! I'm guessing that Antares wouldn't be as bright? Also, Minotaur had the fun factor of watching all the staging going on.

Don't get me wrong though. I'll be out there watching all these Wallops launches.


Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: plutogno on 09/10/2013 07:41 am
for the engineering-minded, an interesting article on the development of the structure of LADEE
http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/optimization-software-improves-small-low-cost-satellite-design
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/10/2013 02:15 pm
I imagine that this thread will soon after to transition to a science thread, because the launch is done. But I would note that LADEE is an unusual program. It is not part of any regular program line. It is essentially an earmarked mission and does not have its basis in any community-wide science study. Put another way, there was no group of scientists calling for this mission and no process whereby it was competed against other science missions.

In part, this is why claims that the LADEE building-block approach can produce cheap spacecraft are rather misleading--there is no actual program that would use these cheaper spacecraft. So what they have done is design a relatively cheaper design that currently has no demand. It therefore may end up being one of a kind.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jcm on 09/10/2013 06:49 pm
I imagine that this thread will soon after to transition to a science thread, because the launch is done. But I would note that LADEE is an unusual program. It is not part of any regular program line. It is essentially an earmarked mission and does not have its basis in any community-wide science study. Put another way, there was no group of scientists calling for this mission and no process whereby it was competed against other science missions.

In part, this is why claims that the LADEE building-block approach can produce cheap spacecraft are rather misleading--there is no actual program that would use these cheaper spacecraft. So what they have done is design a relatively cheaper design that currently has no demand. It therefore may end up being one of a kind.

Hmm..  well technically it is part of the Lunar Quest program. But otherwise yes, agreed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/10/2013 06:55 pm
Hmm..  well technically it is part of the Lunar Quest program. But otherwise yes, agreed.

Lunar Quest has been zeroed out. The program no longer exists.

But I'd also add that LQ was a strategically directed program that was supposed to support Constellation. It did not have an independent scientific rationale. Thus, when Constellation was canceled, LQ could not fall back on a science justification for doing its stuff.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: akula2 on 09/11/2013 01:12 pm
DeLorean at the parking lot for the VIP buses before launch. Got stuck behind this car for an hour in the big traffic jam after the launch. The exhaust smells weird.
It has a Renault engine, so maybe it smelled like burnt French fries..?  :D
They design and manufacture best engines. I mean, Formula 1 is the pinnacle of the auto racing (technology). The Engineering goes behind the sport is absolutely incredible, some auto engineers I've met (McLaren, Audi, Mercedes, Renault etc) are highly talented than many Space engineers in their own right. What they do is absolutely amazing, say how they solve the problems just to improve 0.1 sec advantage!  8)

(http://i43.tinypic.com/fnfned.jpg)

Please read this whoever likes to learn more:

http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013/02/did-renaults-pr-just-give-away-renault.html (http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2013/02/did-renaults-pr-just-give-away-renault.html)
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: akula2 on 09/11/2013 01:28 pm
I'm wondering, what was the total cost of {Minotaur V and LADEE} from Preparation to Close down of this project? Of course, this excluding current mission costs.  Does it cross $1.5 billion?  :-\
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 09/11/2013 02:07 pm
I'm wondering, what was the total cost of {Minotaur V and LADEE} from Preparation to Close down of this project? Of course, this excluding current mission costs.  Does it cross $1.5 billion?  :-\

Not even close to .5 billion
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: akula2 on 09/11/2013 03:07 pm
Not even 500 million? I didn't read any literature about this new Rocket family and LADEE. However, just read that Rocket done for $46 million, and LADEE for $280 million. I hope it's close enough.


Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 09/11/2013 03:10 pm
I imagine that this thread will soon after to transition to a science thread, because the launch is done. But I would note that LADEE is an unusual program. It is not part of any regular program line. It is essentially an earmarked mission and does not have its basis in any community-wide science study. Put another way, there was no group of scientists calling for this mission and no process whereby it was competed against other science missions.

In part, this is why claims that the LADEE building-block approach can produce cheap spacecraft are rather misleading--there is no actual program that would use these cheaper spacecraft. So what they have done is design a relatively cheaper design that currently has no demand. It therefore may end up being one of a kind.
I agree with 95% of the above but my take on this mission is that the most important part of the mission is not the gathering of Luner data but rather the demonstration of long range laser comm. The data gathering is indeed a one time event but the Laser Comm is a key element that may well be part of both military, commertial, and NASA missions for decades to come. The Laser comm is the diamond that is hidden in all this Luner mission straw. It is light weight, high data rate, covert, and extremely difficult to jam or otherwise mess around with. It is the component of the future. If the mission had no other purpose this would suffice.
After all they needed to send back something to demonstrate long range Laser Comm.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 09/11/2013 06:46 pm
Not even 500 million? I didn't read any literature about this new Rocket family and LADEE. However, just read that Rocket done for $46 million, and LADEE for $280 million. I hope it's close enough.


It isn't new rocket family.  It is a refurbish Peacekeeper missile and the 6th time one has been used in the role of a launch vehicle.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: veblen on 09/11/2013 07:07 pm
I went outside on Friday night to view the launch from here on Long Island NY.  I was not disappointed!  I figured it would be a dim glow and probably wouldn't clear the trees.  Instead it was about 3 fists above the horizon, above the trees and rooftops, with the trailing flame and smoke trail clearly visible!  It dimmed out for staging (2nd/3rd) and became a dim glow in the SE sky.  It was still visible during fairing separation then I lost it.

What was the inclination for this launch?

Will future Antares launches be visible from NY?

37.65 degrees according to Orbital's press kit.

As for launch visibility of Antares from Long Island - see the map below (from the A-ONE launch; future ISS launches will fly in the same direction).
That's awesome. Looks like, what, almost a fifth of the population of the US will be able to see it, even if it's low to the horizon? Rich, influential people, too.

There's only one district that matters when it comes to NASA.

Schedule launches while they're congregating on the hill  :P

spectre9 why are you posting here, remember you said "nobody gives a ____ about space robots".

Aren't you embarrassed to be so wrong?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/11/2013 07:09 pm
Not even 500 million? I didn't read any literature about this new Rocket family and LADEE. However, just read that Rocket done for $46 million, and LADEE for $280 million. I hope it's close enough.




That $280 million includes the launch vehicle. I think the actual figure is something like $283 million.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/11/2013 07:14 pm
I agree with 95% of the above but my take on this mission is that the most important part of the mission is not the gathering of Luner data but rather the demonstration of long range laser comm. The data gathering is indeed a one time event but the Laser Comm is a key element that may well be part of both military, commertial, and NASA missions for decades to come. The Laser comm is the diamond that is hidden in all this Luner mission straw. It is light weight, high data rate, covert, and extremely difficult to jam or otherwise mess around with. It is the component of the future. If the mission had no other purpose this would suffice.
After all they needed to send back something to demonstrate long range Laser Comm.

I too agree that the laser data comm is important, and it may be the most important legacy of this mission.

However, I think you have misunderstood me. I was not arguing that LADEE itself is unimportant (although I could theoretically make that argument...). I was saying that stories about LADEE and the Ames common bus (or whatever it is called) miss the fact that there is no follow-on program that will take advantage of it (more precisely, there is no longer a budget line for these kinds of small projects). It is like designing a product when demand is high, only to finish it after nobody wants it anymore.

Now things can change, and having a good building block small science spacecraft could ultimately prove to be a good thing. But the news articles have tended to miss out on how the overall situation has changed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 09/11/2013 08:08 pm
I agree with 95% of the above but my take on this mission is that the most important part of the mission is not the gathering of Luner data but rather the demonstration of long range laser comm. The data gathering is indeed a one time event but the Laser Comm is a key element that may well be part of both military, commertial, and NASA missions for decades to come. The Laser comm is the diamond that is hidden in all this Luner mission straw. It is light weight, high data rate, covert, and extremely difficult to jam or otherwise mess around with. It is the component of the future. If the mission had no other purpose this would suffice.
After all they needed to send back something to demonstrate long range Laser Comm.

I too agree that the laser data comm is important, and it may be the most important legacy of this mission.

However, I think you have misunderstood me. I was not arguing that LADEE itself is unimportant (although I could theoretically make that argument...). I was saying that stories about LADEE and the Ames common bus (or whatever it is called) miss the fact that there is no follow-on program that will take advantage of it (more precisely, there is no longer a budget line for these kinds of small projects). It is like designing a product when demand is high, only to finish it after nobody wants it anymore.

Now things can change, and having a good building block small science spacecraft could ultimately prove to be a good thing. But the news articles have tended to miss out on how the overall situation has changed.
Blackstar
I must work on my communications skills.
I was agreeing with you but trying to make the point that the laser comm is the product that will continue to be in demand, small sat, large sat, now and in the feature and that that fact has been largely glossed over.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Blackstar on 09/11/2013 08:13 pm
1-I must work on my communications skills.

2-I was agreeing with you but trying to make the point that the laser comm is the product that will continue to be in demand, small sat, large sat, now and in the feature and that that fact has been largely glossed over.

1-Maybe both of us.

2-But that may also not be true. Laser comm can work at the Moon, and possibly even work at Mars. It really won't work beyond Mars, apparently, because the pointing requirements are too great. I recently read that laser comm is being considered for the Mars 2020 rover, but I'm not sure if I believe that, because that would force some major changes in the baseline rover design, and NASA may not want to do that. But if LADEE proves it out, you may see it on next generation Mars orbiters and spacecraft planned for operating inside Mars' orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 09/11/2013 08:32 pm


1-Maybe both of us.

2-But that may also not be true. Laser comm can work at the Moon, and possibly even work at Mars. It really won't work beyond Mars, apparently, because the pointing requirements are too great. I recently read that laser comm is being considered for the Mars 2020 rover, but I'm not sure if I believe that, because that would force some major changes in the baseline rover design, and NASA may not want to do that. But if LADEE proves it out, you may see it on next generation Mars orbiters and spacecraft planned for operating inside Mars' orbit.
Right on.
Having worked the Mars laser comm problem I and can say it is likely doable but far from falling off a log.
It may happen but the real market for laser comm is at geo and below. That's where the high data rated, covert nature and robustness to interference make it VERY desirable.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Prober on 09/11/2013 08:58 pm
My only issue with this mission is the EOM.
Don't care for the crashing on the moon.
 
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Antares on 09/11/2013 09:30 pm
That post far upthread about stable lunar orbits led to some interesting pages.  IIRC, there was a payload deliberate left behind in lunar orbit by one of the Apollo missions that, due to the mascons, wandered all over the place in higher and lower orbits before crashing.  I think a controlled de-orbit to a known site at a known time is preferred.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/11/2013 11:40 pm
LADEE Project Manager Update: Initial Checkout Complete
Rachel Hoover  September 10, 2013

After a spectacular launch, the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) spacecraft was placed by the Minotaur V launch vehicle into an elliptic orbit around Earth, as the start of our journey to the moon.  After adjusting some fault protection settings to enable the reaction wheels, mission controllers at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., successfully completed the initial systems checkout phase, and everything looks good so far. This checkout included spacecraft acquisition, tracking, and ranging by all the ground stations. The propulsion system also was activated to do a momentum dump, which means that the spacecraft spin and the reaction wheel spins were reduced together to a nominal state.

LADEE is doing fine and its trajectory to the moon is good. The LADEE spacecraft is currently in an elliptical orbit around Earth, about 162,000 miles (260,000 Km) in altitude. Mission controllers are now performing an extended checkout phase including guidance, navigation and control characterization, reaction control system tests, and on-board controller tuning. 

The spacecraft was at the highest point in the current orbit (apogee) at 9:30 a.m. PDT, Tuesday Sept. 10. Then it will drop back down to a closest approach to Earth (perigee) at 9:38 a.m. PDT on Friday, Sept. 13, where we will perform an engine burn to boost its orbit.

LADEE will continue with two more of these elliptical orbits until it is captured around the moon to do its initial Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI-1) burn on Sunday Oct. 6th. After that we are in lunar orbit. This LOI burn is one of the most critical phases of the mission, because without it working we do not get into lunar orbit.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/ladee-project-manager-update-initial-checkout-complete (http://www.nasa.gov/content/ladee-project-manager-update-initial-checkout-complete)

Sept. 11, 2013 update

On Sept. 10 around 7 a.m. PDT, the spacecraft went into safe mode due to an alignment error between the two star tracker camera heads affecting the rate estimator when the sun occludes one of the cameras. We corrected that and came out of safe mode this morning, Sept. 11, to resume normal operations.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: baldusi on 09/12/2013 12:44 am
I agree with 95% of the above but my take on this mission is that the most important part of the mission is not the gathering of Luner data but rather the demonstration of long range laser comm. The data gathering is indeed a one time event but the Laser Comm is a key element that may well be part of both military, commertial, and NASA missions for decades to come. The Laser comm is the diamond that is hidden in all this Luner mission straw. It is light weight, high data rate, covert, and extremely difficult to jam or otherwise mess around with. It is the component of the future. If the mission had no other purpose this would suffice.
After all they needed to send back something to demonstrate long range Laser Comm.

I too agree that the laser data comm is important, and it may be the most important legacy of this mission.

However, I think you have misunderstood me. I was not arguing that LADEE itself is unimportant (although I could theoretically make that argument...). I was saying that stories about LADEE and the Ames common bus (or whatever it is called) miss the fact that there is no follow-on program that will take advantage of it (more precisely, there is no longer a budget line for these kinds of small projects). It is like designing a product when demand is high, only to finish it after nobody wants it anymore.

Now things can change, and having a good building block small science spacecraft could ultimately prove to be a good thing. But the news articles have tended to miss out on how the overall situation has changed.
Ironically, since this was a project born to support CxP, if the decide to do an EML2 station and need a relay satellite, I simply can't think of a better and more proven platform. Just take all the science instruments, put a couple of LCT, may be a couple of Ku band antenas and put in on a Lissajous orbit. Pretty sure it could be done for the same or even less than this mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: CardBoardBoxProcessor on 09/12/2013 01:08 am
Not sure why Youtube will not accept the 1080p quality of the original video. but if you don't. want to download it here is the link in less quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlt-bFL7HpQ

6.7miles north of  the pad. Obviously someone drove through and blinded everyone with their headlights :) with a golf car no less.

I would attach the file to the post but NSP will not let me.. keeps timing out.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Retired Downrange on 09/12/2013 02:21 am

Frog Blasts Off With Recent NASA Rocket

By Lisa Raffensperger | September 11, 2013 5:43 pm

LADEE and the frog, at the Wallops Island Flight Facility in Virginia. Credit NASA/Wallops/Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport
This amazing photo taken on Friday at the launch of NASA’s LADEE spacecraft contained a tiny photo-bomb—a frog that appears to have been launched by the force of the rocket.

The picture was taken by remote cameras on site and has since been confirmed by a spokesman to be authentic and non-altered, reported Universe Today.

The amphibian’s presence might not be as bizarre as it first seems, though, since launch pads are often built in wet, marshy areas that can contain the heat produced from ignition, reports the Atlantic.

While it’s unknown what became of the tiny traveler, it doesn’t look hopeful—for scale, the rocket to his right is 80 feet tall. But he certainly went out with fanfare.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2013/09/11/frog-blasts-off-with-recent-nasa-rocket/#.UjEjyWt5mSM
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: kevin-rf on 09/12/2013 11:43 am
It's not easy being green.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: robertross on 09/12/2013 03:27 pm

Frog Blasts Off With Recent NASA Rocket

By Lisa Raffensperger | September 11, 2013 5:43 pm

LADEE and the frog, at the Wallops Island Flight Facility in Virginia. Credit NASA/Wallops/Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport
This amazing photo taken on Friday at the launch of NASA’s LADEE spacecraft contained a tiny photo-bomb—a frog that appears to have been launched by the force of the rocket.

The picture was taken by remote cameras on site and has since been confirmed by a spokesman to be authentic and non-altered, reported Universe Today.

The amphibian’s presence might not be as bizarre as it first seems, though, since launch pads are often built in wet, marshy areas that can contain the heat produced from ignition, reports the Atlantic.

While it’s unknown what became of the tiny traveler, it doesn’t look hopeful—for scale, the rocket to his right is 80 feet tall. But he certainly went out with fanfare.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2013/09/11/frog-blasts-off-with-recent-nasa-rocket/#.UjEjyWt5mSM


funny. Reminds me of our friendly bat back during a shuttle launch.  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/12/2013 07:31 pm

Frog Blasts Off With Recent NASA Rocket
I bet the frog story ends up getting more media coverage than the actual LADEE mission.

 - Ed Kyle

P.S.  Wallops has launched frogs into orbit before.  Look up Orbiting Frog Otolith.  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 09/12/2013 08:04 pm

Frog Blasts Off With Recent NASA Rocket
I bet the frog story ends up getting more media coverage than the actual LADEE mission.

No takers on that bet.  The frog is the only bit mentioned in most news reports - LADEE is only mentioned in passing as the means by which this particular unfortunate met its end; there is no mention of the probe's mission or destination.

At least they're giving the latest Voyager 1 news the treatment it deserves, even if the anchors' eyes go blank in a way that shows they don't really understand the words on their TelePrompTers.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: ugordan on 09/12/2013 08:08 pm
6.7miles north of  the pad.

I like the sound of the rocket and all the comments in that video, thanks.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/12/2013 10:44 pm
Sept. 11, 2013 update #2:

The AM-1 maneuver was successfully performed at 4 p.m. PDT today, Sept. 11.  This was an engineering test of the main Orbital Control System (OCS) thruster, which is the big main thruster sticking out of the bottom of the spacecraft. It will be critical for our big Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI-1 burn) on Oct 6.

Sept. 12, 2013 update:

The LADEE spacecraft completed the AM-1b maneuver yesterday.   We are currently in fine pointing mode, and everything looks good.  The post-burn engineering assessment is that the main engine performed very well with no issues.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: corrodedNut on 09/13/2013 12:15 pm
http://burritojustice.com/2013/09/12/ground-control-to-major-frog/
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: akula2 on 09/13/2013 01:30 pm
It isn't new rocket family.  It is a refurbish Peacekeeper missile and the 6th time one has been used in the role of a launch vehicle.
Yes, I read about the project sometime ago. Thanks for responding to basic Qs  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/14/2013 12:06 am
Sept. 13, 2013 update #1:

The first LADEE Phasing Loop Perigree Maneuver (PM-1) has been uploaded and started on the spacecraft, with the planned main engine burn at 9:38 a.m. PDT.  The spacecraft is operating normally.

Sept. 13, 2013 update #2:

We have successfully completed the Perigee Maneuver (PM-1) main engine burn.   Flight Dynamics preliminarily reports that it was a good burn, and will confirm later in the orbit through ranging.  The spacecraft is back in Fine Pointing Mode, and did not go into safe mode before or after the burn.  The spacecraft also successfully went through its first eclipse, and operated as expected.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)


LADEE Project Manager Update: Perigee Maneuver 1 Complete
Butler Hine LADEE Project Manager - Sept 13, 2013

The LADEE Observatory has completed the checkout phase of the mission, and is now in the cruise phase on the way to the moon.  We are currently in elliptic orbits around Earth, called phasing loops, and will continue with two more of these elliptical orbits until LADEE is captured around the moon using an initial Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI-1) burn on Sunday Oct. 6th.  After that we are in lunar orbit.

The major activities this past week included testing the LADEE main engine for the first time.  This was done in a maneuver called Apogee Maneuver-1 (AM-1).  We originally planned to perform AM-1 on Tuesday, Sept 10, but when we were doing thermal conditioning rolls prior to AM-1, the spacecraft went into Safe Mode because of a combination of the roll rate and an alignment error between the two star tracker camera heads.  We cancelled the planned AM-1 while we worked on the issue, and rescheduled it for the next day.  The alignment calibration of the star tracker heads was updated, the thermal roll rate adjusted, and the revised AM-1 burn was successfully completed 4 p.m. PDT Sept. 11.

With that AM-1 test burn completed, we were then ready for the Perigee Maneuver-1 (PM-1) on Friday, Sept. 13.  This maneuver was designed to increase the altitude of the elliptic orbit, to get the spacecraft closer to the moon.  That burn was successfully completed at 9:36 a.m. PDT.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/ladee-project-manager-update-perigee-maneuver-1-complete (http://www.nasa.gov/content/ladee-project-manager-update-perigee-maneuver-1-complete)

Photo Caption:
The Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) team in the Mission Management Operations Center at NASA's Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley, Calif.  Image Credit: NASA

Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: grythumn on 09/14/2013 06:14 pm
A little late, but here are some of my pictures. 300mm lens, from the old Ferry dock (a bit over 2 miles away).

-Bob
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/17/2013 12:14 am
Updates.

Sept. 14, 2013:

The spacecraft continues to be in good health.  The engineering team is assessing Perigee Maneuver 1 telemetry from yesterday.  The early performance analysis look very good so far.

Sept. 15, 2013:

The LADEE spacecraft is still performing well.  The team just completed some initial science instrument checkout tests.  The protective covers are still on all of the instruments, so these tests power up and check the instrument electronics.  The Neutral Mass Spectrometer (NMS) aliveness and performance tests are complete, and the Ultraviolet-Visible Spectrometer (UVS) dark calibration test is complete.  The instrument teams have downloaded the data from these tests and are evaluating them

Sept. 16, 2013:

LADEE is still performing normally.  Both the Neutral Mass Spectrometer (NMS) and the Ultraviolet-Visible Spectrometer (UVS) teams report that their instruments are healthy based on the initial tests performed this weekend.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 09/19/2013 02:59 pm
The following link has a great video of the LADEE Laser com and illustrates the acquisition sequence. The down link runs at 622 megabits per sec with only a four inch aperture.
http://www.space.com/22681-nasa-moon-mission-laser-communications.html
The ground link telescopes are modified commercial telescoped. 
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/19/2013 11:58 pm
updates.

Sept. 17, 2013:

The initial electrical tests of the Lunar Lasercom Spacecraft Terminal (LLST) carried by the LADEE spacecraft were successfully completed yesterday.  These tests did not involve optical transmission to-from Earth yet, but checked all of the systems to make sure they survived the launch and are ready to perform the later experiments.

Sept. 18, 2013:

The LADEE operations team has completed more science instrument activities.  The Neutral Mass Spectrometer has performed cap ejection preparation, as well as peak spectra calibration.  The Ultraviolet-Visible Spectrometer has performed another dark calibration and is now in bake-out, where the instrument is held at higher temperatures in order to boil off any contaminants.  The spacecraft has flown through apogee, and is now on its way back towards Earth in the second phasing loop orbit.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/21/2013 12:31 am
Updates.

Sept. 19, 2013:

LADEE continues performing instrument checkout and calibration activities.  The Neutral Mass Spectrometer Argon and Helium Baseline activities are complete, and the telemetry data have been transmitted to the ground.  This completes the nominal NMS activities prior to ejecting the instrument cover later in the mission.

Sept. 20, 2013:

LADEE continues in the phasing loops, and is approaching the next critical perigee maneuver early Saturday morning at 4:53 a.m. PDT.  The plans for the maneuver have been generated and verified, and backup plans prepared to handle any unexpected events that might crop up during the maneuver.  The spacecraft systems are healthy and the trajectory looks very good.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/23/2013 03:15 pm
Update.

Sept. 22, 2013:

After the successful perigee engine burn maneuver yesterday, the LADEE spacecraft continues outward from Earth in its third phasing loop orbit.  The final science instrument, the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX), has completed its initial activation tests, so all of the LADEE instruments have now been checked out after launch.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/23/2013 10:58 pm
Update.

Sept. 23, 2013:

Analysis of the perigee maneuver main engine burn performed Saturday, Sept. 21, confirms that the burn was extremely accurate. This means that some of the later maneuvers, such as the last perigee burn (PM-3), may not be needed at all. The LADEE Flight Dynamics team is currently assessing the possibilities, and will make their recommendation soon.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.htm (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.htm)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: hutchel on 09/24/2013 12:07 pm

https://twitter.com/worden (https://twitter.com/worden)
Quote
It appears the @NASALADEE start up issues have been resolved. Guess we just had to burp the baby
Or the long version: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)

Would someone please tell the National news media everything is fine.    Just saw the eve national news and they report the problem.

Those two links don't indicate that "everything is fine." NASA still has not explained why the problem happened and how they will make sure that it will not happen again. I'm not saying that anything is wrong, but "we've solved the issue" could only mean "we've solved the issue for now, but it could happen again." I will await more information.

I have it 2nd hand from a family member of the engineers that resolved it that this was a LAUNCH issue (I know the specifics but have not asked permission to release them) and they resolved it for this launch.  It is no longer an issue for this mission.  The story of how they resolved it is great and hopefully the engineers involved get some sort of award for it, if NASA can figure out how to work around the awkwardness of it.  Again I know the specifics and it's a bit embarrassing for NASA.  KUDOS to the engineers for thinking outside the box, taking advantage of modern resources and likely saving the mission (or at least the targeted launch window).
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 09/24/2013 01:21 pm

https://twitter.com/worden (https://twitter.com/worden)
Quote
It appears the @NASALADEE start up issues have been resolved. Guess we just had to burp the baby
Or the long version: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)

Would someone please tell the National news media everything is fine.    Just saw the eve national news and they report the problem.

Those two links don't indicate that "everything is fine." NASA still has not explained why the problem happened and how they will make sure that it will not happen again. I'm not saying that anything is wrong, but "we've solved the issue" could only mean "we've solved the issue for now, but it could happen again." I will await more information.

I have it 2nd hand from a family member of the engineers that resolved it that this was a LAUNCH issue (I know the specifics but have not asked permission to release them) and they resolved it for this launch.  It is no longer an issue for this mission.  The story of how they resolved it is great and hopefully the engineers involved get some sort of award for it, if NASA can figure out how to work around the awkwardness of it.  Again I know the specifics and it's a bit embarrassing for NASA.  KUDOS to the engineers for thinking outside the box, taking advantage of modern resources and likely saving the mission (or at least the targeted launch window).
I have to admit your post is the best "Teaser" I have read in some time. You have all the engineering types on the site waiting with abated breath. Stay tune!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jcm on 09/25/2013 01:42 pm
LADEE appears to have disappeared from the JPL HORIZONS orbital data site - very strange
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: AnalogMan on 09/28/2013 12:48 am
Update.

Sept. 27, 2013:

The LADEE spacecraft is past apogee - the point when it is farthest from Earth - and is headed back toward Earth for a final fly-by on Tuesday, Oct 1, 2013. The last perigee maneuver - when the spacecraft was closest to Earth - was perfect, so no maneuver will be needed during the fly-by.  The mission operations team at NASA’s Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., performed a test of LADEE’s medium gain antenna for the first time, and everything looks good.  This antenna will be used to transmit science data to the ground, once LADEE arrives in lunar orbit.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 09/29/2013 01:04 pm
LADEE laser com has phoned home. YeHee!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: kevin-rf on 09/29/2013 01:18 pm
Do not look into LASER with remaining good eye!
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: SaxtonHale on 10/02/2013 03:31 am

https://twitter.com/worden (https://twitter.com/worden)
Quote
It appears the @NASALADEE start up issues have been resolved. Guess we just had to burp the baby
Or the long version: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ladee/main/index.html)

Would someone please tell the National news media everything is fine.    Just saw the eve national news and they report the problem.

Those two links don't indicate that "everything is fine." NASA still has not explained why the problem happened and how they will make sure that it will not happen again. I'm not saying that anything is wrong, but "we've solved the issue" could only mean "we've solved the issue for now, but it could happen again." I will await more information.

I have it 2nd hand from a family member of the engineers that resolved it that this was a LAUNCH issue (I know the specifics but have not asked permission to release them) and they resolved it for this launch.  It is no longer an issue for this mission.  The story of how they resolved it is great and hopefully the engineers involved get some sort of award for it, if NASA can figure out how to work around the awkwardness of it.  Again I know the specifics and it's a bit embarrassing for NASA.  KUDOS to the engineers for thinking outside the box, taking advantage of modern resources and likely saving the mission (or at least the targeted launch window).

Does that mean we will have to wait for memoirs, or a press conference in a few months?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: hutchel on 10/02/2013 12:26 pm
I am not going to put their award at risk by embarrassing NASA, so yes you will have to wait.  That's the problem with knowing confidential information - it has to stay confidential..
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 10/04/2013 01:05 pm
A update on LADEE may be found at.
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/10021120-ladee-has-finally-left-earth.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 10/06/2013 11:48 am
LADEE is now in lunar orbit! The LOI burn was performed flawlessly at 10:57 UTC.    ;D

Real time orbit data: http://ladeestk.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/preview.cgi (http://ladeestk.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/preview.cgi)
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 10/06/2013 12:59 pm
LADEE is now in lunar orbit! The LOI burn was performed flawlessly at 10:57 UTC.    ;D

Real time orbit data: http://ladeestk.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/preview.cgi (http://ladeestk.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/preview.cgi)


That's great news!


Incidentally, I got quite a popup when I clicked on that link.  It said that it was a government website and by visiting it, I was consenting to having my computer monitored.  It offered no way to cancel, just an "OK" button.  I force quit Safari instead.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: edkyle99 on 10/06/2013 04:27 pm
Incidentally, I got quite a popup when I clicked on that link.  It said that it was a government website and by visiting it, I was consenting to having my computer monitored.
As if we weren't being monitored already. ...

NASA now has four spacecraft orbiting the Moon, as near as I can tell.  I wonder if this is an all-time high?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jcm on 10/06/2013 06:23 pm
Incidentally, I got quite a popup when I clicked on that link.  It said that it was a government website and by visiting it, I was consenting to having my computer monitored.
As if we weren't being monitored already. ...

NASA now has four spacecraft orbiting the Moon, as near as I can tell.  I wonder if this is an all-time high?

 - Ed Kyle

On 25 Apr 1972 at 0000Z there were also four:  Apollo 15 and 16 subsatellites, and Apollo 16 CSM and LM ascent stage
There were four Lunar Orbiters on 1 Oct 1967 but one of them was defunct
Can't offhand think of a case where there were five
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: jcm on 10/06/2013 06:45 pm
Incidentally, I got quite a popup when I clicked on that link.  It said that it was a government website and by visiting it, I was consenting to having my computer monitored.
As if we weren't being monitored already. ...

NASA now has four spacecraft orbiting the Moon, as near as I can tell.  I wonder if this is an all-time high?

 - Ed Kyle

On 25 Apr 1972 at 0000Z there were also four:  Apollo 15 and 16 subsatellites, and Apollo 16 CSM and LM ascent stage
There were four Lunar Orbiters on 1 Oct 1967 but one of them was defunct
Can't offhand think of a case where there were five


Ahh, I forgot Explorer 35 which operated in lunar orbit from Jul 1967 to Jun 1973.  So on 25 Apr 1972 (until
the Apollo 16 CSM left lunar orbit and the LM's batteries expired) there were 5 operating NASA spacecraft in lunar orbit.
And on 1 Oct 1967 there were 4 operating and 1 defunct.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 10/21/2013 03:46 pm
Sounds like LADEE is alive and well with the laser comm working. I just read the enclosed news release.
http://www.universetoday.com/105630/skeleton-crew-gets-ladee-in-orbit-checked-out-and-fires-revolutionary-laser-during-govt-shutdown/
Sounds like we may be moving to a new era in space comm.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: NovaSilisko on 10/29/2013 05:34 pm
Looking at the NASA press release on the lasercomm: http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/historic-demonstration-proves-laser-communication-possible/index.html

"These first tests of the month-long demonstration have included the successful LLCD transmission, by pulsed laser beam, of two simultaneous channels carrying high-definition video streams to and from the moon."

So... did it actually have a camera on board? I don't remember hearing that it did. Or was it a predefined video sent along with the spacecraft? Or transmitted to it for purposes of sending back?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: bolun on 11/02/2013 10:19 am
Moon mission beams laser data to ESA station

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Operations/Moon_mission_beams_laser_data_to_ESA_station
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 11/10/2013 01:16 pm
The LADEE lunar laser comm demo has shown 622 mb/s capability and is still waiting for the rest of LADEE to completely fire up. NASA however has declared the laser comm a success and already committed to a follow on program. In this program it will hitch a ride on a Loral comm sat for the bargain price of ~ $3m.
The next laser comm system LCRD will have a data rate of 1.22 Gb/s (coded) and 2.88 Gb/s uncoded. It is scheduled to launch in 2017.
For more details go to the following URL's:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/releases/2012/12-074.html
http://esc.gsfc.nasa.gov/267/LCRD.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: savuporo on 11/10/2013 07:16 pm
The next laser comm system LCRD will have a data rate of 1.22 Gb/s (coded) and 2.88 Gb/s uncoded. It is scheduled to launch in 2017.
This is awesome tech. Are there any plans to fly an experiment like that out to interplanetary distances yet ? Having a data rate like that from a martian data relay orbiter would be amazing, even if its not the primary data link.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: rickl on 11/10/2013 07:51 pm
Having a data rate like that from a martian data relay orbiter would be amazing, even if its not the primary data link.



Or as the video suggested, we could watch a live HD "Jupiter cam" from the comfort of our homes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Melt Run on 11/15/2013 04:41 pm
The next laser comm system LCRD will have a data rate of 1.22 Gb/s (coded) and 2.88 Gb/s uncoded. It is scheduled to launch in 2017.
This is awesome tech. Are there any plans to fly an experiment like that out to interplanetary distances yet ? Having a data rate like that from a martian data relay orbiter would be amazing, even if its not the primary data link.
There have indeed been design studies that show it possible. Of course the further you go the more challenging things get. Especially when looking close to the sun.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Star One on 11/16/2013 10:19 am

The next laser comm system LCRD will have a data rate of 1.22 Gb/s (coded) and 2.88 Gb/s uncoded. It is scheduled to launch in 2017.
This is awesome tech. Are there any plans to fly an experiment like that out to interplanetary distances yet ? Having a data rate like that from a martian data relay orbiter would be amazing, even if its not the primary data link.
There have indeed been design studies that show it possible. Of course the further you go the more challenging things get. Especially when looking close to the sun.

Is there any likelihood such a payload could get onto the 'Curiosity 2' rover?
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: Jim on 11/16/2013 10:53 am

Is there any likelihood such a payload could get onto the 'Curiosity 2' rover?

it isn't for rovers
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: baldusi on 11/19/2013 06:07 pm

Is there any likelihood such a payload could get onto the 'Curiosity 2' rover?

it isn't for rovers
The particular payload, but the technology could be great. In fact, if EDRS is based on LCT, I doubt GEO<->LEO is less complicated than MMO<->Mars surface. Keeping the optics clean might be a challenge, but if you can do 100Mbps bursts you'd only need short communication windows and use a store and forward architecture.
Of course no current or planned Mars orbiter will carry LCT capability, so it's sort of a moot point.
Title: Re: LIVE: Minotaur V - LADEE - September 6, 2013
Post by: arachnitect on 11/19/2013 09:00 pm

Is there any likelihood such a payload could get onto the 'Curiosity 2' rover?

it isn't for rovers
The particular payload, but the technology could be great. In fact, if EDRS is based on LCT, I doubt GEO<->LEO is less complicated than MMO<->Mars surface. Keeping the optics clean might be a challenge, but if you can do 100Mbps bursts you'd only need short communication windows and use a store and forward architecture.
Of course no current or planned Mars orbiter will carry LCT capability, so it's sort of a moot point.

This is wandering off topic, but is the bottleneck between the relay and the rover, or the relay and earth?