Author Topic: NASA to Hold Media Call on Evidence of Surprising Activity on Europa  (Read 25993 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

OMG?

September 20, 2016
MEDIA ADVISORY M16-111
NASA to Hold Media Call on Evidence of Surprising Activity on Europa

NASA will host a teleconference at 2 p.m. EDT Monday, Sept. 26, to present new findings from images captured by the agency’s Hubble Space Telescope of Jupiter’s icy moon, Europa.

Astronomers will present results from a unique Europa observing campaign that resulted in surprising evidence of activity that may be related to the presence of a subsurface ocean on Europa. Participants in the teleconference will be:

    Paul Hertz, director of the Astrophysics Division at NASA Headquarters in Washington
    William Sparks, astronomer with the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore
    Britney Schmidt, assistant professor at the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta
    Jennifer Wiseman, senior Hubble project scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland

To participate by phone, media must contact Dwayne Brown at 202-358-1726 or [email protected] and provide their media affiliation no later than noon Monday.

Audio of the teleconference will stream live on NASA’s website at:

http://www.nasa.gov/live

For information about NASA's Hubble Space Telescope, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/hubble

-end-
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Offline redliox

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My ears are immediately perked.  Feels like a bonus the same week Elon speaks of his Mars plans we get news about Europa.  Any clues what they may have found?  I can only guess evidence for the plumes has finally resurfaced.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
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Offline notsorandom

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I'm guessing they saw more water plumes like the one Hubble saw in Dec 2012.

Online ugordan

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I'm guessing they saw more water plumes like the one Hubble saw in Dec 2012.

I hope so, that would be really big.

Offline Star One

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I'm guessing they saw more water plumes like the one Hubble saw in Dec 2012.

Seems a very logical conclusion.

Would that close the case for their being a subsurface ocean?
« Last Edit: 09/20/2016 09:41 pm by Star One »

Offline as58

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I'm guessing they saw more water plumes like the one Hubble saw in Dec 2012.

I hope so, that would be really big.

Seems very likely. If you search for programs with 'Sparks' as PI or CoI  here, you'll see he has been awarded HST time for transit observations to see ice plumes at Europa.

Edit: These two in particular:

http://www.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/get-proposal-info?id=13829&observatory=HST
http://www.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/get-proposal-info?id=14112&observatory=HST
« Last Edit: 09/20/2016 09:57 pm by as58 »

Offline Star One

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Does Clipper already have proposed instruments suitable to examine any plumes if this is what this announcement is about?
« Last Edit: 09/20/2016 09:49 pm by Star One »

Offline as58

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Does Clipper already have proposed instruments suitable to examine any plumes if this is what this announcement is about?

MASPEX would probably work.

Offline Star One

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Does Clipper already have proposed instruments suitable to examine any plumes if this is what this announcement is about?

MASPEX would probably work.

Thank you.

And down the line we could now have obvious landing target sites for any lander.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2016 10:05 pm by Star One »

Offline Bubbinski

If this truly is ironclad evidence for plumes....I would think that would ensure Europa Clipper gets the support it needs to make it to the launch pad and beyond. Tuning in on Monday!
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Online Blackstar

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Maybe everybody should count to ten first.

Remember all the hyperventilating before the MAVEN press conference last year? Anybody? Anybody?

Offline vjkane

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Maybe everybody should count to ten first.

Remember all the hyperventilating before the MAVEN press conference last year? Anybody? Anybody?
Given the title of the press conference, it's unlikely that NASA will announce no evidence for plumes.  However, it may again be on the edge of sensor detection like the original observation.

To answer a question by another poster, the Europa multiple flyby orbiter will carry an ultraviolet spectrometer that has the goal, among others, of searching for plumes.  Assuming any are active, there is both a volatile and a dust mass spectrometer that would analyze the composition of any plumes that the spacecraft flys through.  Various remote sensing instruments would characterize the terrain surrounding the origin of the plume(s).

Offline as58

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Maybe everybody should count to ten first.

Remember all the hyperventilating before the MAVEN press conference last year? Anybody? Anybody?
Given the title of the press conference, it's unlikely that NASA will announce no evidence for plumes.  However, it may again be on the edge of sensor detection like the original observation.

To get back to reading tea leaves: Sparks has been awarded time for searching plumes at least four times in last three cycles (http://www.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/get-proposal-info?id=13620&observatory=HST and http://www.stsci.edu/hst/phase2-public/13438.pro in addition to the ones I listed before) for a total of 28 orbits. I doubt that TAC would've given them that much without something to show. In one proposal abstract they even say that they've seen fascinating hints and need confirmation through repeats and improved S/N.

Offline Star One

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This is probably the best article I've seen about this. At least they've contacted somebody in the business so to speak for more educated speculation.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/nasa-europa-hubble-images-announcement-2016-9
« Last Edit: 09/21/2016 06:40 am by Star One »

Offline shooter6947

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Why the 6 days' advance notice?  That seems longer than necessary.  However I'm not familiar with what a typical time would be to announce the press conference.  Not on a Thursday, so not a _Science_ paper presumably.  ?

Offline Chris Bergin

Have HST friends from STS-125 and they aren't spilling, but yeah, likely ice plumes.
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Offline Star One

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Have HST friends from STS-125 and they aren't spilling, but yeah, likely ice plumes.

I imagine this will prove to be another example of what scientists get excited about and what excites the public being somewhat different.

Offline kevin-rf

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Public, Aliens?
NASA, Ice Plumes!
Public, Alien sprinklers for the lawns on Europa?
If you're happy and you know it,
It's your med's!

Offline Star One

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NASA just tweeted this no doubt to calm public over excitement.

Quote
NASA – Verified account ‏@NASA

Monday, we’ll announce new findings from Jupiter’s moon Europa. Spoiler alert: NOT aliens:  http://go.nasa.gov/2djp4RG

https://mobile.twitter.com/NASA/status/778605097798537216
« Last Edit: 09/21/2016 03:22 pm by Star One »

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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Yes but they would say that wouldn't they...



More seriously; although it is pretty likely to be plume-related, on its own I wouldn't describe that as "surprising".
« Last Edit: 09/21/2016 04:12 pm by Alpha_Centauri »

Offline kevin-rf

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Just proof they read NSF. They quickly decided that they had to tamp down the alien ice lawn sprinklers.

Now if they could just direct some of those plumes towards Vandenberg.
« Last Edit: 09/21/2016 06:07 pm by kevin-rf »
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Offline sandrot

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Regarding water vapor on Europa I found this, published December 2013:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-363
"Paper planes do fly much better than paper spacecrafts."

Online Blackstar

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A scientist colleague who used to work at JPL and is pretty knowledgeable about outer planets stuff noted that there have been a LOT of observations of Europa since the earlier report, and none of them showed anything. He said that one interpretation of the earlier data is that it was not due to a geyser but perhaps a meteorite that kicked up vaporized ice. Thus, even if they have another observation, two observations separated by a lot of null data may not be indication of "plumes" but something else.

So, like I said, you might all wanna count to ten.

Or speculate wildly. I'm sure everybody will need practice for Tuesday.

Offline D_Dom

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 I must say, contributors to this forum never cease to inspire wonder, as in I wonder how you come up with this  stuff. Much as I enjoy the wild speculation may I humbly remind, this is not a party thread.
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

Online ugordan

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Presser in a couple of minutes, accompanying media materials already available here: http://www.nasa.gov/europa-activity

Offline Chris Bergin

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Online Blackstar

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Observations from 2014.


Online Blackstar

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So it appears as if it is interpretation of 2014 images, not recent (2016) observations.
« Last Edit: 09/26/2016 06:09 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Chris Bergin

Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope have imaged what may be water vapor plumes erupting off the surface of Jupiter's moon Europa. This finding bolsters other Hubble observations suggesting the icy moon erupts with high altitude water vapor plumes.

The observation increases the possibility that missions to Europa may be able to sample Europa’s ocean without having to drill through miles of ice.

“Europa’s ocean is considered to be one of the most promising places that could potentially harbor life in the solar system,” said Geoff Yoder, acting associate administrator for NASA’s Science Mission Directorate in Washington. “These plumes, if they do indeed exist, may provide another way to sample Europa’s subsurface.”

The plumes are estimated to rise about 125 miles (200 kilometers) before, presumably, raining material back down onto Europa's surface. Europa has a huge global ocean containing twice as much water as Earth’s oceans, but it is protected by a layer of extremely cold and hard ice of unknown thickness. The plumes provide a tantalizing opportunity to gather samples originating from under the surface without having to land or drill through the ice.

The team, led by William Sparks of the Space Telescope Science Institute (STScI) in Baltimore observed these finger-like projections while viewing Europa's limb as the moon passed in front of Jupiter.

The original goal of the team's observing proposal was to determine whether Europa has a thin, extended atmosphere, or exosphere. Using the same observing method that detects atmospheres around planets orbiting other stars, the team realized if there was water vapor venting from Europa’s surface, this observation would be an excellent way to see it.

"The atmosphere of an extrasolar planet blocks some of the starlight that is behind it," Sparks explained. "If there is a thin atmosphere around Europa, it has the potential to block some of the light of Jupiter, and we could see it as a silhouette. And so we were looking for absorption features around the limb of Europa as it transited the smooth face of Jupiter."

In 10 separate occurrences spanning 15 months, the team observed Europa passing in front of Jupiter. They saw what could be plumes erupting on three of these occasions.

This work provides supporting evidence for water plumes on Europa. In 2012, a team led by Lorenz Roth of the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, detected evidence of water vapor erupting from the frigid south polar region of Europa and reaching more than 100 miles (160 kilometers) into space. Although both teams used Hubble's Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph instrument, each used a totally independent method to arrive at the same conclusion.

"When we calculate in a completely different way the amount of material that would be needed to create these absorption features, it's pretty similar to what Roth and his team found," Sparks said. "The estimates for the mass are similar, the estimates for the height of the plumes are similar. The latitude of two of the plume candidates we see corresponds to their earlier work."

But as of yet, the two teams have not simultaneously detected the plumes using their independent techniques. Observations thus far have suggested the plumes could be highly variable, meaning that they may sporadically erupt for some time and then die down. For example, observations by Roth’s team within a week of one of the detections by Sparks’ team failed to detect any plumes.

If confirmed, Europa would be the second moon in the solar system known to have water vapor plumes. In 2005, NASA's Cassini orbiter detected jets of water vapor and dust spewing off the surface of Saturn's moon Enceladus.

Scientists may use the infrared vision of NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope, which is scheduled to launch in 2018, to confirm venting or plume activity on Europa. NASA also is formulating a mission to Europa with a payload that could confirm the presence of plumes and study them from close range during multiple flybys.

“Hubble’s unique capabilities enabled it to capture these plumes, once again demonstrating Hubble’s ability to make observations it was never designed to make,” said Paul Hertz, director of the Astrophysics Division at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This observation opens up a world of possibilities, and we look forward to future missions -- such as the James Webb Space Telescope -- to follow up on this exciting discovery.”

The work by Sparks and his colleagues will be published in the Sept. 29 issue of the Astrophysical Journal.

The Hubble Space Telescope is a project of international cooperation between NASA and ESA (the European Space Agency.) NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, manages the telescope. STScI, which is operated for NASA by the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy in Washington, conducts Hubble science operations.

For images and more information about Europa and Hubble, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/hubble

and

http://hubblesite.org/news/2016/33
« Last Edit: 09/26/2016 06:18 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Online Blackstar

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Offline Chris Bergin

Yeah, not seen anything with a date more advanced than 2014 so far.
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Online Blackstar

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"We do not claim to have proven the existence of plumes..."

Offline Chris Bergin

Key element is they believe this means they could sample for organics/life without having to drill through miles of ice.
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Online Blackstar

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Yeah, not seen anything with a date more advanced than 2014 so far.

I did advise that everybody should count to ten...

I'd note a few things about this "media call." For one thing, note who is not there. Why the head of NASA astrophysics and not NASA planetary science? Another thing, it's a teleconference and not a press conference at the auditorium at NASA HQ. Those things alone indicate that it was not Earth-shattering (or Europa-shattering) news. If it was a big honking deal, they would have done it with more hype.

You can read these tea leaves if you know how NASA does this stuff.

Offline Chris Bergin

The possible transport of water to the surface/plumes.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Or...
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Offline Chris Bergin

We're into:

Hubble - it's great.
JWST - we really need it.
Europa Clipper - Please fully fund it.
SLS - please launch it on that because we'll get the data sooner.
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Offline JH

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Even though the announcement involves reprocessing of old data, the fact that there are possible detections on three separate observations gives more weight to the result.

Offline philw1776

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This matches what I expected except not from 2014 HST observations.  Big push for Europa orbiter able to detect any plume launched organics that somehow survive in that environment.  JWST should be an improvement.  Forget its UV capabilities.  Anyone?
FULL SEND!!!!

Online Blackstar

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Why take so long to produce this info?

Lots of software development required. Very careful data analysis. Got results, then had to check the results and write the paper. Very complicated.

Subsequent to the paper being submitted, they observed two more transits, and they will report on what they saw later.

Offline Chris Bergin

Juno isn't allowed anywhere near Europa due to the wish to avoid contamination of the moon
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Offline Chris Bergin

They do sound very confident about the observations, but because they are scientists any small alternatives means they can't be certain.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Presume it to be water or ice...but can't tell from HST views.
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Online Blackstar

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They do sound very confident about the observations, but because they are scientists any small alternatives means they can't be certain.

They can be confident. But of course the way this works is that other people have to agree with their conclusions. So people will have to look at their data and their methodology. Even then, I think that this data is unlikely to be conclusive. What will be necessary is more observations by a different team, preferably using a different method and analysis. In other words, coming at the question from different angles and all of them reaching similar conclusions.

If this was more conclusive, we'd be there already. The fact that this shows up in so few observations is puzzling, and lowers the confidence level a lot.

Offline Star One

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They do sound very confident about the observations, but because they are scientists any small alternatives means they can't be certain.

They can be confident. But of course the way this works is that other people have to agree with their conclusions. So people will have to look at their data and their methodology. Even then, I think that this data is unlikely to be conclusive. What will be necessary is more observations by a different team, preferably using a different method and analysis. In other words, coming at the question from different angles and all of them reaching similar conclusions.

If this was more conclusive, we'd be there already. The fact that this shows up in so few observations is puzzling, and lowers the confidence level a lot.

Yes but wasn't this done by two independent teams. As to using a different instrument, surely there is only one possible option at the moment and that's Hubble.

Offline Chris Bergin

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Online Blackstar

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They do sound very confident about the observations, but because they are scientists any small alternatives means they can't be certain.

They can be confident. But of course the way this works is that other people have to agree with their conclusions. So people will have to look at their data and their methodology. Even then, I think that this data is unlikely to be conclusive. What will be necessary is more observations by a different team, preferably using a different method and analysis. In other words, coming at the question from different angles and all of them reaching similar conclusions.

If this was more conclusive, we'd be there already. The fact that this shows up in so few observations is puzzling, and lowers the confidence level a lot.

Yes but wasn't this done by two independent teams. As to using a different instrument, surely there is only one possible option at the moment and that's Hubble.

I did not say "different instrument," I said "different method and analysis."

Also, Hubble has multiple instruments. And I would dispute that Hubble is the only way to do the observations.
« Last Edit: 09/26/2016 07:22 pm by Blackstar »

Online Blackstar

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Did they provide a detailed health report on Hubble? I didn't hear one, but I had to bow out for awhile. I'm curious as to how Hubble is doing and what is degrading on the telescope.

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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This matches what I expected except not from 2014 HST observations.  Big push for Europa orbiter able to detect any plume launched organics that somehow survive in that environment.  JWST should be an improvement.  Forget its UV capabilities.  Anyone?

JWST is infrared only. It is not really useful for plume detection. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.03735.pdf

Hubble is our only UV option for the forseeable future.
« Last Edit: 09/26/2016 07:31 pm by Alpha_Centauri »

Offline as58

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Did they provide a detailed health report on Hubble? I didn't hear one, but I had to bow out for awhile. I'm curious as to how Hubble is doing and what is degrading on the telescope.

See http://www.stsci.edu/institute/stuc/commitee-reports/stuc-may16-report.pdf for discussion of HST health status.

These observations are done in deep UV, so there's no chance of doing them from ground and there's no other space telescope to do this, not even a planned one. And for UV imaging with HST at <2000Å it's either STIS or ACS/SBC.

Offline redliox

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Although a few steps presumptuous mentioning this, I can't help wondering about the possibilities of a sample return in a similar fashion to Stardust...which a lot of the Saturn folk want to do at Enceladus.  Naturally first further confirm the plumes, which I'm certain the Europa Clipper mission could do.  But after the lander, a sample return (especially if the samples can be caught in orbit) seems a possible next step.
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Offline Rocket Science

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Thanks for the great article Chris G! :) How cool would it be to have a a "robosub"  looking around sending back video, one can only dream at this point... 8)
« Last Edit: 09/26/2016 10:37 pm by Rocket Science »
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Offline tul

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Although a few steps presumptuous mentioning this, I can't help wondering about the possibilities of a sample return in a similar fashion to Stardust...which a lot of the Saturn folk want to do at Enceladus.  Naturally first further confirm the plumes, which I'm certain the Europa Clipper mission could do.  But after the lander, a sample return (especially if the samples can be caught in orbit) seems a possible next step.

Can you do a sample return as a discovery mission?

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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There are limits on what you can expect from the likely teams doing instruments for both missions to Enceladus / Europa. Have not been greatly impressed, even less so for such a challenge like sample return.

As to the plumes today, have some reason for skepticism over the nature of the plumes being true Europa phenomena. OTOH, Enceladus is solid because the considerable accumulation of evidence from a SC onsite. We could still have artifacts of Jupiter origin.

So the evidence would need to grow before sample return is justified.

Online Blackstar

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Can you do a sample return as a discovery mission?

I'd step back a bit:

Considering that we do not know if these things are regular or happen very sporadically, and considering that we have LOTS of observations that show nothing, how would you know that when you actually sent a spacecraft there, it would have something to collect?

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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For correctness, that art is actually Enceladus, not Europa.
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

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For correctness, that art is actually Enceladus, not Europa.

What art?


Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Enceladus, not Europa
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Offline savuporo

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The real important thing here is that the Mars has definitely ceased to be the single myopic target for search of life.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Star One

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The real important thing here is that the Mars has definitely ceased to be the single myopic target for search of life.

And that's a very good thing in my book.

Online Blackstar

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We should probably cancel Europa Clipper. It's not necessary.

Offline Star One

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Won't somebody think of the planetary protection. ;)

Online ugordan

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We should probably cancel Europa Clipper. It's not necessary.

Plus, next time you get the urge to complain how every thread around here ends up being about SpaceX, you can just remember this post of yours as a valuable contribution to that end.

Online Blackstar

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We should probably cancel Europa Clipper. It's not necessary.

Plus, next time you get the urge to complain how every thread around here ends up being about SpaceX, you can just remember this post of yours as a valuable contribution to that end.

I was just beating them to the punch, baby!

Offline Star One

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We should probably cancel Europa Clipper. It's not necessary.

Plus, next time you get the urge to complain how every thread around here ends up being about SpaceX, you can just remember this post of yours as a valuable contribution to that end.

Something of an over reaction to a lighthearted post. ::)

Online ugordan

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Something of an over reaction to a lighthearted post. ::)

Only if you believe I was being serious. Which I may have been... or not?

See how that works?

That S/N ratio, though.

Offline redliox

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We should probably cancel Europa Clipper. It's not necessary.

Plus, next time you get the urge to complain how every thread around here ends up being about SpaceX, you can just remember this post of yours as a valuable contribution to that end.

I was just beating them to the punch, baby!

No you fool!  You merely added propane to the flames!!  :o *cue firestorm of SpaceX advocated ranting*

Aside from thinking Europa is very ambitious, I would say it'd make "The Europa Report" a potential reality.  ;)
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Offline dchill

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Won't somebody think of the planetary protection. ;)
If 200 people visit for 3 days that's only: 200 * 3 * 450 avg bm * 1.26x10^11 avg bacteria per gram * 1% live bacteria = 3.4x10^14 live bacteria deposited on Europa.  Maybe you found another use for that pizza oven. :P

Offline Arb

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Europa's gravity is only 1.314 m/s2 (0.134 g)[1] so the ships landing thrust would be low but wouldn't it still melt a decent crater even given the 102 K (−171.15°C)[1] surface temperature?

Anyone able to calculate the diameter and depth?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(moon)
« Last Edit: 09/28/2016 09:24 pm by Arb »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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As far as I've been able to estimate (frantic in-head estimation), Europa is about 3 x the diameter of Enceladus. Planetary scientists out there: Does this make it more or less likely in hindsight that the two bodies would have similar activity of this sort?
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Offline jgoldader

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As far as I've been able to estimate (frantic in-head estimation), Europa is about 3 x the diameter of Enceladus. Planetary scientists out there: Does this make it more or less likely in hindsight that the two bodies would have similar activity of this sort?

I don't think it really matters that much; both clearly have obvious externally-driven heat sources (tidal flexing).  The diameter would matter more if they were needing endogenous energy sources, as the smaller objects would be expected to cool faster due to the square-cube law.
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Offline ChrisC

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This NASA press conference was done as a telecon, with reporters calling in and looking at graphics online, and NASA does not archive those telecons.  Sometimes they briefly mention a phone number at the end (not the same number ...) you can call to hear a replay of the telecon, but you have to ... listen to the telecon to hear that number!  So infuriating.

However, in recent years I've found that SOMEONE will inevitably record the call and then put it online.  I just have to keep searching for it, or monitoring the threads here at NSF and at UMSF and see if someone posts it.  Lo and behold, yesterday I came across this upload.  The guy has taken the audio and synced it to the graphics, so in one video you have everything you need to enjoy a full hour discussion.  FAR more information than is covered in the print press releases, or any news story you'll find.

As public thanks to the guy who did this, I'll mention him here:
Matthew Travis / Zero-G News / http://www.zerognews.com / https://www.facebook.com/ZeroGnews

Thank you dude!

« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 01:19 am by ChrisC »
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Offline Alpha_Centauri

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https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/994323304453468160

Quote
Culberson notes that the $21.5 B for NASA incl funding for Europa and hands out article to colleagues that he said was just published in "Nature Astronomy" saying Galileo flew thru a Europa plume.

Paper drops on Monday apparently.
« Last Edit: 05/11/2018 06:20 am by Alpha_Centauri »

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-hosts-live-discussion-about-europa-findings-potential-for-life
Quote
NASA Hosts Live Discussion about Europa Findings, Potential for Life

NASA will host a Science Chat at 1 p.m. EDT Monday, May 14, to discuss the latest analysis of Jupiter’s moon Europa and its status as one of the most promising places in the solar system to search for life. The event will air live on NASA Television, Facebook Live, Twitch TV, Ustream, YouTube, Twitter/Periscope and the agency's website.

Europa has long been a high priority for exploration because beneath its icy crust lies a salty, liquid water ocean. NASA’s Europa Clipper, targeted to launch in 2022, will be equipped with the instruments necessary to determine whether Europa possesses the ingredients necessary to support life as we know it.

Lori Glaze, acting director of NASA’s Planetary Science Division (PSD), and JoAnna Wendel, PSD communications lead, will host the chat. Guests include:

Xianzhe Jia, associate professor in the Department of Climate and Space Sciences and Engineering at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

Elizabeth Turtle, research scientist at Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Maryland

Margaret Kivelson, professor emerita of Space Physics in the Department of Earth and Space Sciences at the University of California, Los Angeles

Media who would like to ask questions during the event must email their name, media affiliation and phone number to Felicia Chou at [email protected] by 12:30 p.m. Monday, May 14.

The public can send questions on social media by using #askNASA at any time during the event.
« Last Edit: 05/11/2018 04:54 pm by Alpha_Centauri »

Offline Star One

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More here.

Yes, Europa really is sending plumes of water into space

Quote
To their delight, the scientists found such a signal on December 16, 1997, during the spacecraft's E12 orbit. This was also Galileo's closest approach to Europa, when it came to within 206km and flew near the Pwyll Crater region. During this pass, the spacecraft's magnetometer measured significant changes, as did Galileo's plasma wave spectrometer. They believed these fluctuations might be due to perturbations from a water plume in the plasma surrounding the moon.

"The sudden, short-duration jump in the frequency of intense emissions can be interpreted as consistent with a highly localized source of plasma, thereby supporting the hypothesis that the magnetic perturbations arise from passage through a localized plume," write the authors of a new paper describing the findings in Nature Astronomy.

After finding these changes, the authors sought to model the magnetic and hydrodynamic effects the spacecraft observed. One version of the model included plumes on the surface of Europa, whereas another did not. The model simulations that included plumes from Europa closely matched the Galileo data, but the model without them did not. This led the scientists to conclude that Hubble had indeed seen plumes on Europa, and Galileo must have flown near or through one.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/twenty-years-ago-the-galileo-spacecraft-flew-through-a-plume-on-europa/

Here’s the related paper.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-018-0450-z
« Last Edit: 05/14/2018 04:50 pm by Star One »

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Chris G/NSF question being answered!  Will mission ops/instruments be tweaked to better investigate plume detection area?

EC minimum fly-by altitude is ~25 km.  Fly-by trajectories could be altered to focus on this area.  Instrumentation--probably not.  Use of said instrumentation--probably yes.
« Last Edit: 05/14/2018 05:22 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Star One

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https://twitter.com/plutokiller/status/996087664611741696?s=20

Quote
I'm a big Europa fan and all, but I would say that, so far, all of the evidence for plumes on Europa has been hopeful, rather than truly convincing. I'd love there to be plumes, but I think we should all retain a healthier skepticism here.

Online Blackstar

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"Yes, Europa really is sending plumes of water into space"

"Spacecraft May Have Flown Right Through a Plume of Water on Jupiter's Moon Europa"

So... YES ABSOLUTELY! vs. "may have"



Offline redliox

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"Yes, Europa really is sending plumes of water into space"

"Spacecraft May Have Flown Right Through a Plume of Water on Jupiter's Moon Europa"

So... YES ABSOLUTELY! vs. "may have"

*shrug* Either way Europa Clipper will check out the phenomenon with the most modern tech we have brought to the Outer Solar System.  I remember reading how Io's volcanoes appear in unexpected locations so I expect, if anything, that Europa's geysers will have their own unexpected quirks that made them hard to detect.  The Galilean moons are notorious experts on being naughty celestial bodies.
 8)
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Offline Chris Bergin

FEATURE ARTICLE: NASA confirms Galileo flew through Europa plumes, adds excitement for Europa Clipper mission -
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/05/nasa-galileo-flew-europa-plumes-excitement-europa-clipper-mission/

- by Chris Gebhardt

(Europa Clipper launched on SLS render by Nathan Koga for NSF)
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Online Blackstar

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I would not say that this "confirms" anything. It is "consistent with" other evidence. But a single observation, or a single scientific paper, rarely "confirms" a scientific discovery to the satisfaction of the entire scientific community.

Offline Welsh Dragon

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I would not say that this "confirms" anything. It is "consistent with" other evidence. But a single observation, or a single scientific paper, rarely "confirms" a scientific discovery to the satisfaction of the entire scientific community.
There's your difference between science and the media. The former generally understands the limitations of any given study, the latter generally does not.

Offline Star One

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I would not say that this "confirms" anything. It is "consistent with" other evidence. But a single observation, or a single scientific paper, rarely "confirms" a scientific discovery to the satisfaction of the entire scientific community.
There's your difference between science and the media. The former generally understands the limitations of any given study, the latter generally does not.

And you don’t think that making sweeping generalisations isn’t just as bad as the problem you seem to think exists. This recent tweet seems equally applicable to your comment.

https://twitter.com/chrislintott/status/996409057404735488?s=20

Quote
It annoys me that such criticism is aimed at 'journals'. Name and shame specific places, please - it's not all of us!
« Last Edit: 05/15/2018 08:39 pm by Star One »

Offline Welsh Dragon

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I would not say that this "confirms" anything. It is "consistent with" other evidence. But a single observation, or a single scientific paper, rarely "confirms" a scientific discovery to the satisfaction of the entire scientific community.
There's your difference between science and the media. The former generally understands the limitations of any given study, the latter generally does not.

And you don’t think that making sweeping generalisations isn’t just as bad as the problem you seem to think exists. This recent tweet seems equally applicable to your comment.
1) I did not make sweeping generalisations, I clearly added qualifiers. My statement was correct.
2) If you don't think this is a problems you've either never looked at popular coverage of science or done any science yourself (or indeed both).

Offline Star One

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I would not say that this "confirms" anything. It is "consistent with" other evidence. But a single observation, or a single scientific paper, rarely "confirms" a scientific discovery to the satisfaction of the entire scientific community.
There's your difference between science and the media. The former generally understands the limitations of any given study, the latter generally does not.

And you don’t think that making sweeping generalisations isn’t just as bad as the problem you seem to think exists. This recent tweet seems equally applicable to your comment.
1) I did not make sweeping generalisations, I clearly added qualifiers. My statement was correct.
2) If you don't think this is a problems you've either never looked at popular coverage of science or done any science yourself (or indeed both).

My issue is rather than identifying a particular publication you merely made a sweeping statement, don’t tar everyone with the same brush. If there’s a particular poor piece then name it.

Which is precisely what the tweet I was quoting was saying.
« Last Edit: 05/16/2018 04:03 pm by Star One »

Offline jarnu

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Another article from one of the guys working in several future missions.

https://theconversation.com/signs-of-water-plumes-boost-chances-of-finding-life-on-jupiters-moon-europa-96507

It is a good article, a recapitulation of events and how to frame the research within the search of life in the solar system. Also I really like how he grouped together four bodies (Mars, Enceladus, Europa and Titan) as candidates of past, present and future life outside Earth. It's a good way to put the research into context and map future developments in the area.

He couldn't avoid to mention 'funding' at the end. Mars data is coming in a good pace and I hope it will be cheaper to gather data in the future. The other three bodies though...


Offline Star One

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Another article from one of the guys working in several future missions.

https://theconversation.com/signs-of-water-plumes-boost-chances-of-finding-life-on-jupiters-moon-europa-96507

It is a good article, a recapitulation of events and how to frame the research within the search of life in the solar system. Also I really like how he grouped together four bodies (Mars, Enceladus, Europa and Titan) as candidates of past, present and future life outside Earth. It's a good way to put the research into context and map future developments in the area.

He couldn't avoid to mention 'funding' at the end. Mars data is coming in a good pace and I hope it will be cheaper to gather data in the future. The other three bodies though...

Shouldn’t Pluto also be considered as a possible venue for life?

Offline jarnu

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Another article from one of the guys working in several future missions.

https://theconversation.com/signs-of-water-plumes-boost-chances-of-finding-life-on-jupiters-moon-europa-96507

It is a good article, a recapitulation of events and how to frame the research within the search of life in the solar system. Also I really like how he grouped together four bodies (Mars, Enceladus, Europa and Titan) as candidates of past, present and future life outside Earth. It's a good way to put the research into context and map future developments in the area.

He couldn't avoid to mention 'funding' at the end. Mars data is coming in a good pace and I hope it will be cheaper to gather data in the future. The other three bodies though...

Shouldn’t Pluto also be considered as a possible venue for life?

I'm not an expert at all. But in the article he says salty ocean in contact with sand and rock at the bottom
Quote
...in contrast to some other moons with subsurface oceans – including Ganymede and Callisto – where the ocean floor is ice.

Maybe this part is important.

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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Yes the important point is having an ocean in contact with a rocky mantle.  Pluto's ocean should it exist is not the most suitable.

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