I decided to start a new thread [snip]http://www.nro.gov/foia/docs/foia-leaders.pdf
SAPSP SP-1 DirectorSP-2 Vice DirectorSP-3 Security/PolicySP-4 SafetySP-5 PersonnelSP-6 R&DSP-7 HexagonSP-8 ?SP-9 ContractsSP-10 Mission OperationsSP-11 ?SP-12 Finance & BudgetSP-13 ?SP-14 GambitSP-16 Launch Integration SP-21 Hexagon/GambitHaven't seen any other numbers.
Quote from: Jim on 01/10/2017 03:20 pmSAPSP SP-1 DirectorSP-2 Vice DirectorSP-3 Security/PolicySP-4 SafetySP-5 PersonnelSP-6 R&DSP-7 HexagonSP-8 ?SP-9 ContractsSP-10 Mission OperationsSP-11 ?SP-12 Finance & BudgetSP-13 ?SP-14 GambitSP-16 Launch Integration SP-21 Hexagon/GambitHaven't seen any other numbers.SIGINT has to be in there. I also wonder if comms would be in there as well--not necessarily space-based relay, but an office for the ground stations.
SAPSP SP-1 DirectorSP-2 Vice DirectorSP-3 Security/PolicySP-4 SafetySP-5 PersonnelSP-6 R&DSP-7 HEXAGONSP-8 SIGINT "Basket" SPO (polar sigints, P-11s, CANYON, JUMPSEAT)SP-9 ContractsSP-10 Mission Operations OD-1 and OD-4SP-11 RHYOLITE/MAGNUM/ORIONSP-12 Finance & BudgetSP-13 KENNANSP-14 GAMBITSP-15 MSESP-16 Launch Integration SP-21 HEXAGON/GAMBITSP-27 MSESP-44 STP
Quote from: Jim on 01/10/2017 03:20 pmSAPSP SP-1 DirectorSP-2 Vice DirectorSP-3 Security/PolicySP-4 SafetySP-5 PersonnelSP-6 R&DSP-7 HEXAGONSP-8 SIGINT "Basket" SPO (polar sigints, P-11s, CANYON, JUMPSEAT)SP-9 ContractsSP-10 Mission Operations OD-1 and OD-4SP-11 RHYOLITE/MAGNUM/ORIONSP-12 Finance & BudgetSP-13 KENNANSP-14 GAMBITSP-15 MSESP-16 Launch Integration SP-21 HEXAGON/GAMBITSP-27 MSESP-44 STPedited SP-10. It was omitted in my cut and pasteWe know OD-4 was at Sunnyvale. But what about OD-1? I think I have a challenge coin from Menwith Hill with OD-1 on it.Did OD-2 or OD-3 exist? Pine Gap or Bad Aibling?
OD-1 was at Sunnyvale, too. OD-2 was Menwith Hill. OD-7 was NRO unit at Fort Meade. Not sure about OD-3.MC
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/10/2017 08:11 pmOD-1 was at Sunnyvale, too. OD-2 was Menwith Hill. OD-7 was NRO unit at Fort Meade. Not sure about OD-3.MCI confirmed that the coin had OD-2 on the coin. I forgot 1 was at Sunnyvale with 4. I should have saved my old Sunnyvale phonebook.
Quote from: Jim on 01/11/2017 12:20 amQuote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/10/2017 08:11 pmOD-1 was at Sunnyvale, too. OD-2 was Menwith Hill. OD-7 was NRO unit at Fort Meade. Not sure about OD-3.MCI confirmed that the coin had OD-2 on the coin. I forgot 1 was at Sunnyvale with 4. I should have saved my old Sunnyvale phonebook.You should have! So we have unattributed OD numbers 3, 5 and 6 at least... and NRO locations in Bad Aibling, Pine Gap and Buckley?MC
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/11/2017 04:08 pmQuote from: Jim on 01/11/2017 12:20 amQuote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/10/2017 08:11 pmOD-1 was at Sunnyvale, too. OD-2 was Menwith Hill. OD-7 was NRO unit at Fort Meade. Not sure about OD-3.MCI confirmed that the coin had OD-2 on the coin. I forgot 1 was at Sunnyvale with 4. I should have saved my old Sunnyvale phonebook.You should have! So we have unattributed OD numbers 3, 5 and 6 at least... and NRO locations in Bad Aibling, Pine Gap and Buckley?MCAnd White Sands?
On the other hand, not sure when the OD designations came into use....
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/11/2017 05:50 pm On the other hand, not sure when the OD designations came into use....I know at least earlier than 1983
I will see if I had any Space Division phonebooks.Have you seen this thread?https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29115.msg913804#msg913804Also have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.
I had forgotten that vital point -- which explains the lack of a dedicated Special Projects unit and confirms my own suspicion that SP's involvement in the program resided within SP-16, integration.MC
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/12/2017 04:47 pmI had forgotten that vital point -- which explains the lack of a dedicated Special Projects unit and confirms my own suspicion that SP's involvement in the program resided within SP-16, integration.MCDid you ever heard of the MISC contract (Mission Integration Support Contract) that Martin Marietta had?Also, would you agree that SP-16 became OSL?
Former MSE Col. Mac Lydon became the last head of SP-16, then transitioned to OSL (so his LinkedIn bio says), retiring from that post in 1993.
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/12/2017 05:54 pm Former MSE Col. Mac Lydon became the last head of SP-16, then transitioned to OSL (so his LinkedIn bio says), retiring from that post in 1993.Yes, I do remember him.MISC was a huge support contract that cover shuttle mission integration for all DOD payloads. And it was another layer on top of LSICs to help disguise the SVC's. The spacecraft projects worried about payload integration, where as MISC worried about the whole mission.At one time, SAMSO/SD has an office symbol YO that did mission integration for both AF and SP missions. The Director was dual hatted SD/SP (I think it was headed by Kulpa). It got reduced down to just SD missions around 1982/3 or so. SP-16 used the office symbol of YOX to the outside world. When I got to LAAFS in 1983, things were moving around. The SPOs were 2 letter office symbols starting with Y and they reported to two office symbols starting with C headed by generals. CL was Deputy Commander for Launch and Controls Systems headed by Don Kutyna and deputy was Nate Lindsay. Through the 5 years I was there, Don Cromer, Don Hard, Lindsay, etc all cycled through the position. In 1987, shortly after Lindsay had left to go to head SP, I made captain. I was kind of surprised to get a congratulation card from him. I was more surprised to see that address was from SAFSP-1. I still have the card.
When Lindsay was CF (I think CL was deputy for launch operations -- that's what it says on my July 1986 org chart) the deputy for space transportation system (YO) was Col. Donald Depree... I assume that was some kind of dual hatted job.Were there other SP numbers (especially from the pre 1983 era) that came and went? I know that the famous SP-7, which managed CORONA, then the Air Force element of HEXAGON, was merged with SP-`4/GAMBIT in 1978... becoming SP-21. The SP-7 number was "retired," but revived in the late 1980s under Col. Robert Mihara, and in existence into 1990 at least. Have often wondered if this was where the SAFSP team for the misty-erious payload on STS-36 lived....MC
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/13/2017 04:02 pmWhen Lindsay was CF (I think CL was deputy for launch operations -- that's what it says on my July 1986 org chart) the deputy for space transportation system (YO) was Col. Donald Depree... I assume that was some kind of dual hatted job.Were there other SP numbers (especially from the pre 1983 era) that came and went? I know that the famous SP-7, which managed CORONA, then the Air Force element of HEXAGON, was merged with SP-`4/GAMBIT in 1978... becoming SP-21. The SP-7 number was "retired," but revived in the late 1980s under Col. Robert Mihara, and in existence into 1990 at least. Have often wondered if this was where the SAFSP team for the misty-erious payload on STS-36 lived....MC I worked for Depree in YO (actually Craig Martin in YOF*). YO at that time was "down graded" to just Air Force missions. SP-16 used the office symbol YOX back then. CF became CL in one of the reorgs after Challenger. CLV was Expendable Launch Vehicles (old YX). Vic Whitehead CLT was shuttle, Space Test Program and StarlabCan I get a copy of the org chart?* Let's see how good my memory is YOE - Ducote EngineeringYOO - Kumashiro OperationsYOC - Riles IntegrationYOM - was MSE's and then became YM (separate two letter)YOB - BusinessYOG ?
Quote from: Jim on 01/12/2017 03:49 pmAlso have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.
Also have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/12/2017 04:47 pmQuote from: Jim on 01/12/2017 03:49 pmAlso have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.In the BIS third pub "Space Chronicle Vol 59 Supplement 1 2006"
Any idea in what division the SAR birds are? For me it's not clear if it was a CIA program or an Air Force one.
Quote from: Jim on 01/12/2017 03:49 pmAlso have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.In the BIS third pub "Space Chronicle Vol 59 Supplement 1 2006"Thanks -- I DO have that and, in fact, am frequently in touch with the author on various space-related matters. My error was forgetting that when SDS migrated into the black in 1983, it went to the CIA's Program B, not Special Projects/Program A.MC
Also have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.In the BIS third pub "Space Chronicle Vol 59 Supplement 1 2006"
Quote from: Michael Cassutt on 01/14/2017 06:11 pmQuote from: Jim on 01/12/2017 03:49 pmAlso have you read Dwayne Day's JBIS Article from 2006 on SDS? He states it was taken over by Program B (not A) from SAMSO in 1983.In the BIS third pub "Space Chronicle Vol 59 Supplement 1 2006"Thanks -- I DO have that and, in fact, am frequently in touch with the author on various space-related matters. My error was forgetting that when SDS migrated into the black in 1983, it went to the CIA's Program B, not Special Projects/Program A.MCWe did - was basing some of my statements on this info, and here it is with my comments to the right of the names:SP-1 Lindsay, Nate SAFSP directorSP-2 Larned, Rick SAFSP vice directorSP-2A Grammer, Pat Hotard, Doug Ramirez, TerrySP-3 Davis, Art securitySP-6 Hodgson, Mark advanced techSP-7 Mihara, Bob short-term, likely IMINT relatedSP-8 Gayer, Frank SIGINT (Mercury, Trumpet, P-11 follow-on)SP-9 Krieger, Lance contracting Pfeil, DennySP-10 Mekaru, Mark Cooper, DennisSP-11 Geyer, Gary ORION Soukup, SteveSP-12 Wood, Jane budgetingSP-13 Buffin, John IMINT ? seems to be CRYSTALSP-14 Mannen, James IMINT, possibly LACROSSP-15 Andreoli, Leo Jaeger, LenSP-16 Lydon, Mac launch integration Le Compte, WayneSP-17 Opfer, James networks Travis, MarkYPO Harrington, P.CDD Brookes, MaeMC
And how about the Office of Space Systems, the NRO Staff that was ensconced in the Pentagon's Suite 4C1000 for so long....SS-1 DirectorSS-2 Exec asst/adminThen we have SS-3 through SS-9 (SS-9 was Operations as of 1990).Titles associated with these offices include Policy, Plans & Systems, Programming -- with various Program Element Monitors under those.Discuss.Michael Cassutt
Going through my new HEXAGON documents, it appears as if studies about putting H on the shuttle were conducted by SP-6, but SP-7 was the HEXAGON office. So I would guess that SP-6 did all the initial studies for various satellites going on the shuttle, but if any decision was made, then their home SP took over from there.
Quote from: Blackstar on 02/10/2017 01:24 amGoing through my new HEXAGON documents, it appears as if studies about putting H on the shuttle were conducted by SP-6, but SP-7 was the HEXAGON office. So I would guess that SP-6 did all the initial studies for various satellites going on the shuttle, but if any decision was made, then their home SP took over from there. Yeah, SP-6 was R&D/Advanced Tech and did preliminary studies. When it came to developing hardware and ops, programs moved to the "flying" offices, SP-7, SP-8/11, and others. The SP-7 director during those HEXAGON study days, early-mid 1970s, was Col. Raymond Anderson.Michael Cassutt