Analyst - 18/1/2008 10:17 PMQuotevt_hokie - 18/1/2008 8:00 PMI was never a fan of Ares/Orion, but I did think that there was something to be said for the "safe, simple, soon" approach. I'm a bit suprised that even such a conservative design for our next generation "STS" is proving to be so troublesome.QuoteStowbridge - 18/1/2008 8:01 PMNo RLV talk please! That was only even LEO at best.The bird in hand ... Constellation looks more and more like LEO too (budget wise it looked like LEO from the beginning), much less capable, but for about the same costs.What do we know about Ares-X? Will it move to the left too? Will it have enough momentum and carried out even if the architecture changes to whatever in 2009?Analyst
vt_hokie - 18/1/2008 8:00 PMI was never a fan of Ares/Orion, but I did think that there was something to be said for the "safe, simple, soon" approach. I'm a bit suprised that even such a conservative design for our next generation "STS" is proving to be so troublesome.
Stowbridge - 18/1/2008 8:01 PMNo RLV talk please! That was only even LEO at best.
William Barton - 18/1/2008 I realize this is probably an illusion, but it sometimes seems distressingly like the whole point of ESAS is to provide contracts for "the usual suspects."
yinzer - 18/1/2008 5:25 PMThe ESAS report definitely claimed that Ares I was cheaper than an EELV solution.
Antares - 18/1/2008 11:50 AMQuoteTim S - 18/1/2008 11:06 AMGood article. Would have been easy to focus on just the slips without stressing this is to mitigate slips for the primary missions.Just goes to show the lack of budgetary support we're having to deal with.Denial is not just a river in Madison County. Will MSFC ever understand it doesn't have infinite money like in Apollo, or other programs to steal from like in STS and ISS?It's naive to blame Washington. Our money is fixed - that's the design driver - which no one in the heritage HSF world seems to understand. Design a system that fits in that budget, with performance, cost and schedule margin. Don't design a system with zero margin or less (with political considerations as the design driver) and then complain when you don't get more budget to bail you out.That's the fundamental problem with the answers from ESAS.If we show we can develop and operate new systems, the budget would grow. But bad news like this... we're hammering our own thumbs.
Tim S - 18/1/2008 11:06 AMGood article. Would have been easy to focus on just the slips without stressing this is to mitigate slips for the primary missions.Just goes to show the lack of budgetary support we're having to deal with.
Zach - 18/1/2008 5:37 PMSo whose faults are all of these problems? Naturally Jack’s employer who didn’t give him the fat raise.
Jim - 18/1/2008 11:48 AMQuoteFlightstar - 18/1/2008 12:40 PM unless you want to hand out thousands of pink slips at KSC.Either way, it looks like a given. The delays won't allow for ops people to be kept on payroll with nothing to do for years
Flightstar - 18/1/2008 12:40 PM unless you want to hand out thousands of pink slips at KSC.
NASA_Langley_spammer - 18/1/2008 12:05 PMIt's the fourth.Good comment, and I believe Chris wrote the article in such a style, when he could have really angled it heavily if he was that kind of a writer.
landofgrey - 19/1/2008 1:28 AMChris wrote a good article, of course, but I'm just saying maybe people should resist the urge to get too down or go into panic mode, since things are sure to change again.
Zach - 18/1/2008 6:37 PMJack decides to design and build his fully loaded dream house. He estimates the cost and figures that he can just afford it.
Jackson - 18/1/2008 6:04 PMQuoteyinzer - 18/1/2008 5:25 PMThe ESAS report definitely claimed that Ares I was cheaper than an EELV solution.And safer. I know the EELV people say this is unfair.
jgoldader - 19/1/2008 5:19 PMI'm not against the moon. But honestly, folks, the very first step in going back to the moon, Ares I, seems to be just stopping up the works. We also need Ares V, the EDS, Artemis, bases... And given how much Ares I alone is going to cost, how can all this possibly cost less than many hundreds of billions of dollars? If NASA is working "go as you pay," it'll be a long time before we go anywhere besides LEO, IMHO.
Sid454 - 19/1/2008 1:14 PM1) Then on the EDS use the P&W RL60 in cluster of three engines in place of the J2X.2) Unlike the J2X the Rl60 is not a paper engine it's due to go into production as an upgrade to the RL10 used in EELVs.