Author Topic: LIVE: Chang'e-3 lunar probe and rover Lunar Landing December 14, 2013  (Read 717507 times)

Offline saturnapollo

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Excellent. That's more like the colour I would expect the moon to be.

And yes that's a "real" photo and not either a video or copy of a screen image.

Keith
« Last Edit: 12/23/2013 04:43 pm by saturnapollo »

Offline AJA

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http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070025224_2007025210.pdf

Anyone want to bet that Chang'e/Yutu have 1Mhz tansceivers ?

EDIT: actually more likely, i would think they will have variable frequency transceivers and they'll run some surface radio propagation experiments across the likely frequency ranges.

Yup... definitely a scientific opportunity. I browsed through both those NTRS papers. As the second one says - the calculation of link budget, and margins for antenna power etc. don't account for Inter symbol-interference. So, as regards digital data - there's a lot of work still to be done. It also says that they applied their modified model on scaled Earth-analog data, derived from the SRTM because Clementine's resolution wasn't satisfactory. I wonder if they've now used LRO to generate predictions for the moon itself. This is something that the Chinese rover(s) could validate.

Would this count as "active co-operation" though? I know about Frank Wolf, but the law still hasn't changed has it?

Offline pospa

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New footage of the rover in move (starts 0:25)  [youtube]R9qhPWbwwhc[/youtube]

and Yutu from new angle
« Last Edit: 12/24/2013 07:14 pm by Jester »

Offline Star One

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Isn't LRO due to overfly it tomorrow?

Hopefully we'll get some images back from that.

Offline Blackstar

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and Yutu from new angle


Interesting that the high gain is pointed down. They must be using the imager to look close at the dirt in front of Yutu.

Offline AJA

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and Yutu from new angle

Interesting that the high gain is pointed down. They must be using the imager to look close at the dirt in front of Yutu.

Fixing that high-gain antenna to the mast was a good idea. It makes the rover look like a baby that refuses to give up its pacifier to me :P
I suppose it's fitting, given that a functioning comm-link will work to pacify all the Chang'E 3 engineers too :D

Also, here's something I hadn't paid attention to, but which a 3D picture posted over here http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/12231242-change3-update.html (Thanks Emily!) brought out.

The lander leg pads. They seemed to have pushed, and piled up some regolith on the outside, but not on the inside. That seems to suggest to me that there was some stroke/give in each leg when the lander dropped down. It's obviously not the dirt kicked out by the descent engine because even if that was firing at the time of touchdown (which we know it wasn't) - the dirt flying outward would've piled up on the inside.

Looking at the location of the peak on the small pile also seems to indicate that the legs did then retract a bit. (If they hadn't, the peak of the little piles would've been on the pads, as opposed to slightly away). I don't know if this happened at landing, or after the rover was deployed, reducing the weight of the lander on the surface. It'd be interesting to compare the size of these piles for all the four legs, when we do get unobstructed. imagery
« Last Edit: 12/23/2013 08:38 pm by AJA »

Offline savuporo

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he lander leg pads. They seemed to have pushed, and piled up some regolith on the outside, but not on the inside. That seems to suggest to me that there was some stroke/give in each leg when the lander dropped down. ...
Looking at the location of the peak on the small pile also seems to indicate that the legs did then retract a bit. ..
There was a paper somewhere describing their lander leg suspension and shock absorbers. The entire platform was mechanically engineered to stay level IIRC.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Dalhousie

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I have asked this before, but no reply, what's the rational for mounting the HG antenna on the same mast as the pancam?  Does it save mass?  Simplify structure?
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline Blackstar

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I have asked this before, but no reply, what's the rational for mounting the HG antenna on the same mast as the pancam?  Does it save mass?  Simplify structure?

I thought that Emily suggested a reason earlier in the thread: it reduces the number of things that have to be deployed and retracted. Reduces the number of things that can fail.

Offline Dalhousie

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I have asked this before, but no reply, what's the rational for mounting the HG antenna on the same mast as the pancam?  Does it save mass?  Simplify structure?

I thought that Emily suggested a reason earlier in the thread: it reduces the number of things that have to be deployed and retracted. Reduces the number of things that can fail.

Thanks, that's what I thought. 
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline AJA

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I have asked this before, but no reply, what's the rational for mounting the HG antenna on the same mast as the pancam?  Does it save mass?  Simplify structure?

I thought that Emily suggested a reason earlier in the thread: it reduces the number of things that have to be deployed and retracted. Reduces the number of things that can fail.

Thanks, that's what I thought. 

Could it also help with pointing the antenna? On-board image processing of the mast-cams, to track Earth. I don't know if it'd make a difference.

Offline plutogno

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Offline Blackstar

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There is a cutout in the side of the rover box so that the mast can lay flat.

Does anybody know if the mast will be withdrawn inside the body (and covered over with the solar panel) during nighttime, or if the mast will be laid flat, with the dish pointing up toward Earth?

Offline wahaha

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Chang'e 5 a big innovation on how it will return

http://tech.southcn.com/t/2013-12/24/content_88204235.htm (in Chinese Language)
Machine Translation:

The Chang'e five: return mode innovation

The three task is not over yet, Chang'e five has become a topic of town talk of the streets. Ye Peijian academician is the No. five innovations made detailed disclosure.

Chang five and Chang three, compared with one great leap is the No. five is composed of 4 components, the lander, riser, the orbiter, return device, 4 is added up to the quality, now all emission field all have launch, must to the newly established Hainan launch, but with the new Long March five emission.

Academician Ye Peijian also explains in detail the Chang'e five launch, falling process month, return. The long march five combined body 4 is launched into the orbit of the moon, the orbiter, return to a portfolio, the lander, rise to another combination, two combination, the lander with ascenders landed in a predetermined area. After falling to a predetermined area, a robot lander will be on the surface of the moon to catch things into a container, a mechanical hand can make hole, can be played on the moon 2 meters deep hole, to seize, then put into the container. The machine hand will also put the container into the riser lander inside, after rising is the moon take off. Fly then enter the orbit of the moon, and then with the orbiter docking and assembly to return, put up device inside the samples back to the transfer device, and then the riser away, the orbiter and return device around the moon back to earth.

Academician Ye Peijian field said, Chang'e five return there will be a great innovation. The past returns and return of Shenzhou non are direct returns, this time in order to solve the placement problem, to solve the land to adjust the carrying angle impact problem, separated into the atmosphere to 60 km will jump back into the universe to, then jump back to the atmosphere, and then come back. "The longer distances, go longer, we can get a lot of benefits, this method can reduce the heat load, reduce land angle and so on, so the return mode will also be the first test of our." Leaf said academician.

Of course, this is not the Chang'e five crossing attempt rashly, Chang'e four will be the first "crab". Academician Ye Peijian said, Chang'e four months will not fall, around the moon walk a natural return orbit, try to get 10.7 km speed and trajectory, the return and the number five as like as two peas, to verify this return can return, whether fall to a predetermined area. Prof. ye said, next year we can see it around the moon and back China
 
« Last Edit: 12/24/2013 01:54 pm by wahaha »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Chang'e 4 won't land on the moon
Chang'e 5 a big innovation on how it will return

http://tech.southcn.com/t/2013-12/24/content_88204235.htm (in Chinese Language)
Machine Translation:

The Chang'e five: return mode innovation

The three task is not over yet, Chang'e five has become a topic of town talk of the streets. Ye Peijian academician is the No. five innovations made detailed disclosure.

Chang five and Chang three, compared with one great leap is the No. five is composed of 4 components, the lander, riser, the orbiter, return device, 4 is added up to the quality, now all emission field all have launch, must to the newly established Hainan launch, but with the new Long March five emission.

Academician Ye Peijian also explains in detail the Chang'e five launch, falling process month, return. The long march five combined body 4 is launched into the orbit of the moon, the orbiter, return to a portfolio, the lander, rise to another combination, two combination, the lander with ascenders landed in a predetermined area. After falling to a predetermined area, a robot lander will be on the surface of the moon to catch things into a container, a mechanical hand can make hole, can be played on the moon 2 meters deep hole, to seize, then put into the container. The machine hand will also put the container into the riser lander inside, after rising is the moon take off. Fly then enter the orbit of the moon, and then with the orbiter docking and assembly to return, put up device inside the samples back to the transfer device, and then the riser away, the orbiter and return device around the moon back to earth.

Academician Ye Peijian field said, Chang'e five return there will be a great innovation. The past returns and return of Shenzhou non are direct returns, this time in order to solve the placement problem, to solve the land to adjust the carrying angle impact problem, separated into the atmosphere to 60 km will jump back into the universe to, then jump back to the atmosphere, and then come back. "The longer distances, go longer, we can get a lot of benefits, this method can reduce the heat load, reduce land angle and so on, so the return mode will also be the first test of our." Leaf said academician.

Of course, this is not the Chang'e five crossing attempt rashly, Chang'e four will be the first "crab". Academician Ye Peijian said, Chang'e four months will not fall, around the moon walk a natural return orbit, try to get 10.7 km speed and trajectory, the return and the number five as like as two peas, to verify this return can return, whether fall to a predetermined area. Prof. ye said, next year we can see it around the moon and back China

I believe the reporters (or Ye) has confused the “Chang'e 5 precursor" mission that will test high speed re-entries with Chang'e 4...
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline wahaha

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On 24Dec, the father of Chang'e Ye Peijian conducted a workshop in Guangzhou,China
I found it very informative. He discussed almost everything, from Chang'e 1 to Chang'e 5, mars mission, China's space station etc

http://online.southcn.com/h/20131217_270.htm  (Chinese language)

Offline jumpjack

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to the Chinese speakers: any new info?
Doesn't it exist any program for PC rather than for mobile phones allowing "visual translation"? The one I tested for the phone works 80% times, but it's quite uncomfortable for multiple texts...

The lander leg pads. They seemed to have pushed, and piled up some regolith on the outside, but not on the inside. That seems to suggest to me that there was some stroke/give in each leg when the lander dropped down. It's obviously not the dirt kicked out by the descent engine because even if that was firing at the time of touchdown (which we know it wasn't) - the dirt flying outward would've piled up on the inside.

I think the lander hit the ground quite hard, according to descent movie and lack of 4meters-hovering phase.

Anyway, another important thing is visible in the 3d anaglyph: a "big" crater very close to one of the feet, big enough to contain the whole foot, and around 20 cm deep I think. (look at the left leg in 3d photo). Anyway even if the crater was exactly behind the foot, being the legs 4 I don't think it would have affected lander tilt.

Solar panels are also "strange": why are they so much bended? Were they open during landing and were maybe smashed down?!? (Also one panel of the rover appears down-bended when you look at the rover from front or rear).

-- Jumpjack --

Offline Phil Stooke

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The first lander images showed the solar panels horizontal, so no, not lander hard and 'smashed down'.  They are moveable, and probably tilted down for thermal control at local noon.  At sunset the west-facing panel would tilt down to face the low sun, at sunrise the east-facing panel would tilt down to face the rising sun, we can expect them to move quite a bit. 

I didn't see any mention of this elsewhere, but the 21 December drive video showed (a) that video is possible as well as individual images, and (b) that the ground-penetrating radar antennae were extended out behind the rover for their first use.  In other images they are tucked away along the rover sides under the solar panels.

Phil


Offline lcs

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I didn't see any mention of this elsewhere, but the 21 December drive video showed (a) that video is possible as well as individual images
Phil

Live TV from the moon for the first time in 41 years.  I remember the frustration in Dec 1972 of the TV network's sparse coverage of Apollo 17.  Now we have live HD from the moon, worldwide connectivity, and nobody can see it except a handful of elites. 

Offline simonbp

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Live TV from the moon for the first time in 41 years.  I remember the frustration in Dec 1972 of the TV network's sparse coverage of Apollo 17.  Now we have live HD from the moon, worldwide connectivity, and nobody can see it except a handful of elites. 

One can only hope that it puts a foot in the backside of sufficient other elites to ensure that we don't have to wait another 41 years...

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