Author Topic: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?  (Read 17349 times)

Online MP99

Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #40 on: 04/05/2010 09:16 pm »
But IMO I think eventually an LOM, if not LOC will occur in a robust commercial sector style program, be it a crewed mission or non crewed. Accidents happen.

OK, I'm nowhere near the industry.

But, ISTM, if a commercial launch were to have a LOM without LOC (eg Soyuz T-10-1-style abort or Apollo 13-style safe return) it would be considered somewhat of a victory in itself.

Martin

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #41 on: 04/05/2010 09:36 pm »
I think range safety on a crewed vehicle would have to act a little different then an unmanned vehicle.

An unmanned vehicle just blows up when the command is given but a crewed vehicle's would have to fire the LAS or or be delayed until the crew bails out and then it can fire the range safety charges.

I think the shuttle's is fully manually operated as seen on Challenger.

Though in some instances I wonder if it would be safer to just kill the thrust and let it hit the ground in one piece vs shower a wide area in flaming debris.
Though with solids your only choice is to blow it up.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2010 09:50 pm by Patchouli »

Offline Jim

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #42 on: 04/05/2010 10:19 pm »

Untrue.  If offered the choice between falling just short of LEO and being blown to pieces the multibillion dollar one of a kind robotic payload doesn't care.  Humans very much prefer not being blown to pieces.

The fault handling is going to be substantially different.

Incorrect.
That is a spacecraft decision and not a launch vehicle function.

Offline Jim

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #43 on: 04/05/2010 10:22 pm »
THERE WILL BE.

Passengers on Dragon are civilian transport, SpaceX unlike NASA does not have crown immunity. 

You have twisted this argument around to where the original point is no longer debated.  Your basic premise is wrong and you don't know what you are talking about.

« Last Edit: 04/05/2010 10:25 pm by Jim »

Offline Jim

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #44 on: 04/05/2010 10:26 pm »

Though in some instances I wonder if it would be safer to just kill the thrust and let it hit the ground in one piece vs shower a wide area in flaming debris.


There is never is an instance for the ground, water is different story.

Offline Namechange User

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #45 on: 04/05/2010 10:45 pm »

I think the shuttle's is fully manually operated as seen on Challenger.


The range is the range.  They will blow it up if they have to, regardless if there are people on it or not, because if it is heading toward T-ville, Cocoa Beach, etc then something needs to be done before that.

Unmanned rockets do not have some sort of AI where the logic in it says, "I AM OFF COURSE....MUST DESTROY SELF" and then "boom".  The only time a rocket explodes, manned or unmanned and the range did not do it, is because there was an uncontained failure. 
Enjoying viewing the forum a little better now by filtering certain users.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #46 on: 04/05/2010 11:30 pm »
Very busy and don't have time to review the thread, but everyone keep it on topic, thanks :)
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Offline renclod

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #47 on: 04/08/2010 12:48 pm »
"Are man-rating standards counterproductive ?"

To get the best insight into the problem (IMO) it is recommended to listen to what Dr. Andrew J. Aldrin, ULA Business Development Director, had to say March 30, 2010 at the George C. Marshall Institute workshop.

Video at
http://www.cspan.org/Watch/Media/2010/03/30/HP/A/31311/George+C+Marshall+Institute+Discussion+on+Space+Exploration+Policy+and+Programs.aspx

- skip to 40' .

« Last Edit: 04/08/2010 03:02 pm by renclod »

Offline Gene DiGennaro

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Re: Are man-rating standards counterproductive?
« Reply #48 on: 04/08/2010 01:12 pm »
"Are man-rating standards counterproductive ?"

To get the best insight into the problem (IMO) it is recommended to listen to what Dr. Andrew J. Aldrin, ULA Business Development Director, had to say March 30, 2010 at the George C. Marshall Institute workshop.

Video at
http://www.cspan.org/Watch/Media/2010/03/30/HP/A/31311/George+C+Marshall+Institute+Discussion+on+Space+Exploration+Policy+and+Programs.aspx

- skip to 40' .




Dr. Andrew Aldrin...related to Buzz?

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