Author Topic: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)  (Read 165069 times)

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #160 on: 10/23/2012 10:07 pm »

  I do wonder where all the extra fuel comes from to feed nk33 in soyuz 2-1.  The wider body gives so e greater capacity.  Will the burn time be shorter?

NK-33 has a deep throttling capability, which reduces prop consumption and increases burn time.

Offline Lord spa

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #161 on: 10/24/2012 08:14 am »

NK-33 has a deep throttling capability, which reduces prop consumption and increases burn time.


Ah yes as required by the troublesome KORD system.  This should make for a smooth ride uphill!

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #162 on: 10/24/2012 01:40 pm »
Traditionally, at for least first stage engines, they transfer the technology and serial manufacturing to the LV factory. This happens with Proton, Soyuz, Cyclone and Angara. Zenit appears to be an exception. But I'm sure that would the RD-193 be used for Soyuz, it would be made at Samara. Nobody commented on the fact that the RD-193 is 33% more powerful than the NK-33. Which, at the very least, would mean a reinforcement of the thrust paths.

Apparently the nk33-1 would have comparable performance to rd193, if they resumed production. I suppose that cost would be more important than performance and so decision on what engine to use would be based on that.

The r7 launch sites look over specified and should deal with the extra thrust?  I do wonder where all the extra fuel comes from to feed nk33 in soyuz 2-1.  The wider body gives so e greater capacity.  Will the burn time be shorter?
If you had 33% more thrust, you'd probably need to increase the tank's volume further to make it worthwhile. And I think the Soyuz-2.1v is sort of volume limited if you want to keep pad compatibility with the rest of the family. In any case, if you put an RD-191 and increase the tank's size, you end up with a pretty clear Angara competitor. I don't think the Russian can have the luxury of a dual and overlapping LV strategy (like the EELV).

Offline Prober

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #163 on: 10/24/2012 02:11 pm »
Traditionally, at for least first stage engines, they transfer the technology and serial manufacturing to the LV factory. This happens with Proton, Soyuz, Cyclone and Angara. Zenit appears to be an exception. But I'm sure that would the RD-193 be used for Soyuz, it would be made at Samara. Nobody commented on the fact that the RD-193 is 33% more powerful than the NK-33. Which, at the very least, would mean a reinforcement of the thrust paths.

Apparently the nk33-1 would have comparable performance to rd193, if they resumed production. I suppose that cost would be more important than performance and so decision on what engine to use would be based on that.

The r7 launch sites look over specified and should deal with the extra thrust?  I do wonder where all the extra fuel comes from to feed nk33 in soyuz 2-1.  The wider body gives so e greater capacity.  Will the burn time be shorter?
If you had 33% more thrust, you'd probably need to increase the tank's volume further to make it worthwhile. And I think the Soyuz-2.1v is sort of volume limited if you want to keep pad compatibility with the rest of the family. In any case, if you put an RD-191 and increase the tank's size, you end up with a pretty clear Angara competitor. I don't think the Russian can have the luxury of a dual and overlapping LV strategy (like the EELV).

how can Soyuz compete with Angara if the Angara competitor makes the engines for your LV?
« Last Edit: 10/24/2012 02:32 pm by Prober »
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #164 on: 10/24/2012 02:29 pm »
how can Soyuz compete with Angara if the Angara cometitor makes the engines for your LV?
Angara first stage engines are made at Omsk, Soyuz first stage engines are made at Samara. NPO Energomash might have designed both, but they only keep manufacturing for foreign markets (Zenit-2, Atlas V, and at least upto this KSLV). In any case, the Russian government is the one footing the bill. If they are willing to put their rubles, they might make two rockets with the exact same performance. I'm just saying that I don't see them doing that, and will probably try to keep the Angara and Soyuz-2/3 family with interleaving payload capabilities.
The whole point of the Soyuz-2 is to use the same pad, with minimal mods. I don't think they could still make it compatible if they needed much more volume. Let's remember that the RD-107 is in the 800kN class, the NK-33 in the 1,500kN, and the RD-193 in the 2,000kN. Of course that in  the single stick version the main propulsion would need to have more thrust since the RD-107 gives the stage a T/W of 0.84 (that's before you count the Blok I, fairing and payload).

Offline zaitcev

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #165 on: 11/26/2012 02:07 am »
Our member anik posted a link to the official website TsSKB Progress that deals with the rebuilding of the burnt test article:
 http://www.tsskb-progress.ru/novosti/vosstanovlenie-ustanovki-eu-763.html
In short:
 - Parts from the 2nd flight article were used to recover the fire test article (1st flight article is fully assembled and is in storage in Plesetsk waiting for the results of fire test -- zaitcev).
 - The fuel tank taken from the flight rocket had to be adopted for the test rocket by adding the test points, harnesses, and mounting hardware for installation on the stand (LOX tank was not damaged in the mishap; R-7 normally has no hold-down, needed on the stand -- zaitcev).
 - Fire test retake is slated for February 2013.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #166 on: 12/05/2012 02:36 pm »
Speaking at the expanded meeting of the company' management on November 16, 2012, the head of TsSKB Progress Aleksandr Kirilin said that "the first launch of the Soyuz-2-1v had been scheduled for April 2013."
Also from TsSKB, As of October 2012, the second vehicle and its upper stage was scheduled to be ready for launch in September 2013.

Copied with permission from the Russian Space Web website, 2013 launcher schedule page and the Soyuz 2-1v launcher page.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #167 on: 12/11/2012 10:14 pm »
http://www.tsskb-progress.ru/novosti/blog/stranitca-19.html

in Russian from a few months ago....

The Volga upper stage completes thermal vacuum tests.


Offline max_schmurz

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #168 on: 01/16/2013 06:20 am »
Good news from Peresvet (http://samaratoday.ru/news/100779).
It's declared that yesterday NK-33A test firing was successful!

Offline Salo

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #169 on: 01/16/2013 09:01 am »
Good news from Peresvet (http://samaratoday.ru/news/100779).
It's declared that yesterday NK-33A test firing was successful!
This news from Vintay, Samara region:
http://samaratoday.ru/news/100779

Offline max_schmurz

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #170 on: 01/16/2013 10:12 am »
Good news from Peresvet (http://samaratoday.ru/news/100779).
It's declared that yesterday NK-33A test firing was successful!
This news from Vintay, Samara region:
http://samaratoday.ru/news/100779

Of course, sorry for the mistake

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #171 on: 01/28/2013 04:39 pm »
I've been told that upper stage Volga has designation 14S46 (14С46).
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline Salo

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #172 on: 01/28/2013 05:24 pm »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #173 on: 01/28/2013 06:24 pm »
Nice picture of Volga upper stage:

http://www.samspace.ru/multimedia/images/selected_images/105/

The Volga appears to be the propulsion unit of some more recent Russian technical assets.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #174 on: 01/28/2013 06:41 pm »
I've been told that upper stage Volga has designation 14S46 (14С46).

And another information : TsSKB-Progress's internal designation for Volga was 141KS (141KC).
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline Prober

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #175 on: 02/27/2013 01:01 pm »
Any updates on this?   Been close to a month.
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #176 on: 02/27/2013 06:48 pm »
Any updates on this?   Been close to a month.
Last I that I'm aware of was second attempt at end of February to nominally complete stage one static hot fire test with first test launch in April 2013 per Anatoly Zak's website.

Offline fregate

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #177 on: 02/28/2013 02:38 am »
I've been told that upper stage Volga has designation 14S46 (14С46).

And another information : TsSKB-Progress's internal designation for Volga was 141KS (141KC).
According to the NK forum it uses both designations:
Quote
141КС - блок выведения "Волга" (14С46)
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #178 on: 02/28/2013 04:27 pm »
I've been told that upper stage Volga has designation 14S46 (14С46).

And another information : TsSKB-Progress's internal designation for Volga was 141KS (141KC).
According to the NK forum it uses both designations:
Quote
141КС - блок выведения "Волга" (14С46)

I would guess that one is the GRAU index number issued by the State, and the second is the factory number. 141KC would be the factory number, and 14S46 would be the GRAU index number, based on comparable systems.


Offline Salo

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Re: Soyuz-2-1v Launcher (formerly Soyuz-1)
« Reply #179 on: 03/24/2013 06:25 am »

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