Author Topic: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter  (Read 3118 times)

Offline libs0n

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Rand Simberg, a space commentator and blogger, has a kickstarter to create a report on an alternative to SLS Mars architecture.  It is pretty close to its goal but with only a couple of days to go.  Created this thread in case contributing might be of interest to some here.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1960236542/clearing-the-roadblock-to-mars/

Offline UberNobody

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #1 on: 06/15/2015 03:24 am »
If I were to hazard a guess, the plan involves Falcon Heavy and Bigelow inflatable habitats.  Is it cheaper and more effective than a SLS/Orion Mars plan?  Most probably, but it doesn't matter that much.

It is the unfortunate reality that NASA is treated as a special interest group.  Wherever there is a NASA center, there is congressional support for projects involving that center.  Members of congress try their best to make sure their NASA center's projects get priority.  For them, the mission isn't the priority, the jobs and influx of money is the priority.

The most likely ways* for NASA to get to Mars are the following:

1. A president with congressional support gives NASA an ambitious fixed timeline to design and fly a mission to Mars.

2.  NASA is pushed into going to Mars by a private company *cough* SpaceX *cough* that successfully develops a transportation system to get there.

3.  After a string of technology development projects and scientific missions, the cost of going to Mars comes down to the point where NASA can easily fit it in to their budget and do it in a presidential timescale.

edit: added a 4th.
4. An international effort develops with significant support from multiple countries, reducing the financial burden on NASA and holding development steady beyond typical congressional/presidential timescales.

*by most likely, I mean according the the opinions of many in the industry and aerospace community.


I like the enthusiasm, but I'm not convinced that getting to Mars is going to be sped up by a kickstarter project  :-\

« Last Edit: 06/15/2015 03:36 am by UberNobody »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #2 on: 06/15/2015 03:31 am »
I think the purpose is to provide a non-SLS plan that can be used to answer the "monster rockets are the only way!" arguments that so many people continue to make. There still isn't a good one out there. While I too don't really feel the need for another master plan to Mars, at least it might aid in putting to rest the insistence that a big expensive rocket is a precondition for going beyond LEO.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #3 on: 06/15/2015 10:04 am »
Now about 38 hours to go on the Kickstarter and less than $3,000 required. Please chip in if you can, we need more reasoned debate about travel to Mars.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #4 on: 06/15/2015 10:09 am »
I think the purpose is to provide a non-SLS plan that can be used to answer the "monster rockets are the only way!" arguments that so many people continue to make. There still isn't a good one out there. While I too don't really feel the need for another master plan to Mars, at least it might aid in putting to rest the insistence that a big expensive rocket is a precondition for going beyond LEO.

Or maybe show that is is.
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline sdsds

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #5 on: 06/16/2015 04:38 am »
While I too don't really feel the need for another master plan to Mars, at least it might aid in putting to rest the insistence that a big expensive rocket is a precondition for going beyond LEO.

Or maybe show that [it] is.

Or maybe show the true costs of doing it another way. If Simberg is honest with himself (and I choose to believe that's in his nature), he might need to do this kind of study to convince himself that "distributed launch" (or whatever buzzword we end up calling it) has inherent limitations. That would be an amazing outcome, for sure!
— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 —

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #6 on: 06/16/2015 02:59 pm »
Now 11 hours left to the KS and just over $2,000 to go. Last chance to help Rand over the line, it'll be worth it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1960236542/clearing-the-roadblock-to-mars/

In the immortal words of Lord Percy Percy "Go on you little tease, you know you want to"  ;D

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #7 on: 06/16/2015 10:04 pm »
Or maybe show the true costs of doing it another way. If Simberg is honest with himself (and I choose to believe that's in his nature), he might need to do this kind of study to convince himself that "distributed launch" (or whatever buzzword we end up calling it) has inherent limitations. That would be an amazing outcome, for sure!

No doubt he already knows the limitations, since being an engineer (which he is) is all about understanding tradeoffs.

The point though is to offer up alternatives so that when a decision is made to go to Mars the alternatives on how to do that are known.  Today the official U.S. Government assumption is that the best way to go is by using the SLS, even though no alternatives have been studied.

At least with Apollo alternatives were identified and studied, and the architecture that was used satisfied the very specific goal that was required (i.e. to land a man on the Moon and return him safely).  However now it is assumed that the same architecture should be used for every goal in space, despite the advancements in technology and business models 50 years after the choices for Apollo were made.

I contributed.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #8 on: 06/16/2015 10:42 pm »
Thanks to a late surge the project is now funded :D

Still over an hour to chip in.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #9 on: 06/16/2015 11:02 pm »
.. and if you don't like the guy, remember that there's no better way to torture someone than to compel them to work on something like this :)
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #10 on: 06/17/2015 02:55 am »
Better part of 50 Falcon Heavy launches (in place of SLS) required to do NASA's DRM 5.0, and that assumes nuclear thermal propulsion and total throw-away Falcons.  Not cheap, any way it is done.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Oli

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #11 on: 06/17/2015 03:36 am »
Can't believe anyone backed this nonsense. SLS is not the "Roadblock to Mars".

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Rand Simberg "Clearing The Roadblock To Mars" Kickstarter
« Reply #12 on: 06/17/2015 04:15 am »
Can't believe anyone backed this nonsense. SLS is not the "Roadblock to Mars".

Discussions are so much more interesting when people actually present their reasoning and evidence.

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