Author Topic: Falcon Heavy into production as Pad 39A HIF rises out of the ground  (Read 74228 times)

Offline BrightLight

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Maybe this was covered earlier somewhere else - Why is the shuttle rotating service tower being left in place, is it too expensive to remove?

Offline mme

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Maybe this was covered earlier somewhere else - Why is the shuttle rotating service tower being left in place, is it too expensive to remove?
My understanding is that SpaceX wanted to use explosives to demolish it and NASA rejected that approach.  SpaceX doesn't want the RSS, but they're in a rush to get 39A operational so they are working around it for now.

Edit: I can't find a reference, but this is what I recall...
« Last Edit: 02/19/2015 09:25 pm by mme »
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Offline Endeavour_01

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Great article!

If the FSS has crew access ambitions, does that mean they'll be launching F9 from that pad too, or does it mean a manned FH?

28 Merlin engines; that's a lot! (I'm counting the Merlin Vac). I hope I can see a launch someday.

I was, however, shocked to see ASDS refereed to with the B-word. :P

I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starship/SH, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline Chris Bergin

Great article as always Chris, I am excited to see the progress pictures as they come out and I do have to wonder if 39A will be ready for FH this summer, seems like a lot of work is needed to the pad before summer, but knowing the pad updates are underway is awesome!!

End of the year is what the KSC guys estimate, but that's not official.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Great article!

If the FSS has crew access ambitions, does that mean they'll be launching F9 from that pad too, or does it mean a manned FH?

28 Merlin engines; that's a lot! (I'm counting the Merlin Vac). I hope I can see a launch someday.

I was, however, shocked to see ASDS refereed to with the B-word. :P

I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.


Yeah, that text is actually linked to the Dragon V2 articles :)
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Offline clongton

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I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.

The internet is your friend. I lifted this directly from the SpaceX website just 30 seconds ago:
Quote
Falcon Heavy was designed from the outset to carry humans into space and restores the possibility of flying missions with crew to the Moon or Mars.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline oiorionsbelt

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I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.

The internet is your friend. I lifted this directly from the SpaceX website just 30 seconds ago:
Quote
Falcon Heavy was designed from the outset to carry humans into space and restores the possibility of flying missions with crew to the Moon or Mars.
That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.

Offline Owlon

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I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.

The internet is your friend. I lifted this directly from the SpaceX website just 30 seconds ago:
Quote
Falcon Heavy was designed from the outset to carry humans into space and restores the possibility of flying missions with crew to the Moon or Mars.
That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.

Right. That's very similar to the language they've used regarding Dragon carrying crew, and clearly there is a lot of engineering work between the current Dragon and the upcoming crewed version.

Offline Coastal Ron

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I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.

The internet is your friend. I lifted this directly from the SpaceX website just 30 seconds ago:
Quote
Falcon Heavy was designed from the outset to carry humans into space and restores the possibility of flying missions with crew to the Moon or Mars.
That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.

It probably also matters who would be flying on the Falcon Heavy pushed Dragon - NASA, a commercial customer, or just SpaceX personnel.  If it's non-government I'm sure their certification process will have a lower bar than if they go through NASA.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline guckyfan

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That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.

Garrett Reisman of SpaceX mentioned it very clearly in response to a question in a presentation he did late in 2014. While he was not sure about many things regarding Falcon Heavy he was very clear in this point. They are not going to manrate Falcon Heavy. At least not initially.

Offline Halidon

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Around the time STS was wrapping up, two or three folks around these parts were quite vocally predicting one or both of the 39 pads would be cold forever. Now both are just abouy bustling with life again, well as much as a pad ever does. Sometimes, its nice to be an optimist.

Offline MP99

+1 from me!

Yeah, now I was pretty much saying it was a done deal in draft, but given the lack of a comment back from SpaceX on the five pad depiction in the cool video they put out, because they can't speak about it too much before it's all a done deal, I thought "proposed" would work best for that representation.

We know that is where they will land (reported it last year). We know they have a deal with the USAF, but technically it's still their proposed site until they have some sort of announcement or groundbreaking. I remember the situation with 39A and they preferred it wasn't classed as done until Ms Shotwell took to the podium like she did.

So that's the story behind "proposed". But we all know that's where it will be.

I assume this is pretty official re them taking it over?
http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/565808/45th-space-wing-spacex-sign-first-ever-landing-pad-agreement-at-cape-canaveral.aspx

Quote
45th Space Wing, SpaceX sign first-ever landing pad agreement at Cape Canaveral
By 45th Space Wing Public Affairs, / Published February 10, 2015

PATRICK AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. (AFNS) -- Brig. Gen. Nina Armagno, the 45th Space Wing commander, recently signed a five-year leasing agreement with SpaceX that will allow for the creation of the first-ever "Landing Pad" at Launch Complex 13 at historic Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla.

SpaceX plans to repurpose the launch complex to successfully support their construction of a vertical-landing facility suitable for the return of reusable first-stage boosters of their Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles that are currently launched from LC-40 at CCAFS.

"The way we see it, this is a classic combination of a highly successful launch past morphing into an equally promising future," Armagno said. "It's a whole new world, and the 45th Space Wing is committed to defining and building the Spaceport of the future."

LC-13 was originally used for operational and test launches of the Atlas ICBM, and Atlas B, D, E and F missiles were also test launched from there.

It was the most-used and longest-serving of the original four Atlas pads.

Now it will be used in an amazing new way.

"For decades, we have been refining our procedures for getting successful launches skyward here on the Eastern Range. Now we're looking at processes on how to bring first-stage rockets back to earth at the first landing pad at the Cape," she said. "We live in exciting times here on the space coast."

Cheers, Martin

Offline Chris Bergin

I've changed the line from:

"SpaceX's proposed landing site at Cape Canaveral's SLC-13"

To:

"SpaceX's proposed - albeit a deal has been signed with the USAF - landing site at Cape Canaveral's SLC-13"

Doesn't flow brilliantly, but the only other way is to add another para, but that would break the flow of the article.
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Offline Robotbeat

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That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.

Garrett Reisman of SpaceX mentioned it very clearly in response to a question in a presentation he did late in 2014. While he was not sure about many things regarding Falcon Heavy he was very clear in this point. They are not going to manrate Falcon Heavy. At least not initially.
No, he was NOT clear on that. He specifically said he wasn't involved in the FH program and wasn't familiar with the status. Clear as mud.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline guckyfan

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Garrett Reisman of SpaceX mentioned it very clearly in response to a question in a presentation he did late in 2014. While he was not sure about many things regarding Falcon Heavy he was very clear in this point. They are not going to manrate Falcon Heavy. At least not initially.
No, he was NOT clear on that. He specifically said he wasn't involved in the FH program and wasn't familiar with the status. Clear as mud.

Yes he said that. He was not familiar with the status in most points, that was also clear. But this is the one point connected to his line of work and he was absolutely clear on this one point. Not on the others as I already mentioned in my first post.

Offline Robotbeat

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Garrett Reisman of SpaceX mentioned it very clearly in response to a question in a presentation he did late in 2014. While he was not sure about many things regarding Falcon Heavy he was very clear in this point. They are not going to manrate Falcon Heavy. At least not initially.
No, he was NOT clear on that. He specifically said he wasn't involved in the FH program and wasn't familiar with the status. Clear as mud.

Yes he said that. He was not familiar with the status in most points, that was also clear. But this is the one point connected to his line of work and he was absolutely clear on this one point. Not on the others as I already mentioned in my first post.
No, it wouldn't be intimately connected. It's launch vehicle design and build, not crew vehicle certification.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline anonymousgerbil

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I was, however, shocked to see ASDS refereed to with the B-word. :P

It does have the facetious quotes around it, though ... clearly not intended to be a serious reference!  ;)

You had me in a panic then! ;D

Yeah, Barge is just because the news site gets a huge amount of passing traffic where a lot may be reading an article for the first time here. Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship could result in confused faces. Barge helps them visualize it.

The guys out on the tug moving it around call it a barge.  I'll take a real working sailor's opinion over Elon's somewhat wishful naming conventions any day.  Though I would understand if maintaining fully positive relations with the company required use of the S-word in all "official" capacities.

Also, the company that actually owns it seems to be under the impression that it's a barge, so there's that.   ;)

Offline Endeavour_01

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I believe they aren't human-rating FH at present and the article links to Dragon V2 when discussing the FSS so I assume Chris is referring to Commercial Crew launches.

The internet is your friend. I lifted this directly from the SpaceX website just 30 seconds ago:
Quote
Falcon Heavy was designed from the outset to carry humans into space and restores the possibility of flying missions with crew to the Moon or Mars.

The Internet is indeed your friend. Check out 32:40 on the video.

http://spaceref.biz/company/spacex/future-in-space-operations-teleconference-with-spacex-garrett-reisman.html

That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.


Garrett Reisman of SpaceX mentioned it very clearly in response to a question in a presentation he did late in 2014. While he was not sure about many things regarding Falcon Heavy he was very clear in this point. They are not going to manrate Falcon Heavy. At least not initially.
No, he was NOT clear on that. He specifically said he wasn't involved in the FH program and wasn't familiar with the status. Clear as mud.

He is in charge of the Dragon V2 program. I am sure that if the FH guys were planning to man-rate soon and use FH to launch crew they would tell him.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2015 08:19 pm by Endeavour_01 »
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starship/SH, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline clongton

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That's true but, although I don't know where on the internet, I know I've read somewhere that they are not now going to human rate FH right away. Just like they aren't doing cross feed right away either.

Garrett Reisman of SpaceX mentioned it very clearly in response to a question in a presentation he did late in 2014. While he was not sure about many things regarding Falcon Heavy he was very clear in this point. They are not going to manrate Falcon Heavy. At least not initially.

That doesn't make any sense at all because the FH core and the FH boosters are both the F9 v1.1 with hardware added to enable the coupling. F9 v1.1 IS a man-rated LV. Both use the same lower and upper stage. In order for the FH to NOT be man-rated they would have to un-man-rate the F9 v1.1 and remove the design components and redundancies that make it a man-rated vehicle. That is not going to happen.

Bottom line is that the company web page - approved by Elon Musk - specifically states that the FH was (already) designed from its inception to be a man-rated vehicle. I will take that as gospel until Elon himself states otherwise because it was HE that stated it would be a man-rated launch vehicle.

Garrett Reisman needs to have somebody proofread his statements before he makes them. He is not very good at shooting from the hip - he never was.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2015 08:31 pm by clongton »
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Offline kdhilliard

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In order for the FH to NOT be man-rated they would have to un-man-rate the F9 v1.1 and remove the design components and redundancies that make it a man-rated vehicle.

Isn't there a difference between building a sytem to standards which will allow man-rating, and actually going through the process of man-rating it?

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