Author Topic: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission  (Read 101498 times)

Offline Kabloona

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SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« on: 11/20/2014 04:15 am »
Reading between the lines in this article, it seems likely that the ongoing competition Lt Gen Pawlikowski referred to is for the upcoming NROL-79 mission. SpaceX had not previously commented on whether or not they would submit a bid, though it seemed likely they would.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/19/us-usa-space-engine-idUSKCN0J323W20141119

Quote
SpaceX was permitted to submit a bid for that specific launch, even before it was certified, but it must meet the Air Force's requirements to win the contract.

That statement seems to suggest that if the certification process is not finished by the time of contract award in December, SpaceX cannot win the competition.

Quote
A top U.S. Air Force official on Wednesday said she is "pretty optimistic" that privately held Space Exploration Technologies will eventually be certified to launch U.S. military satellites into orbit but declined comment on the timing of such an action...Pawlikowski said she was "pretty optimistic" that SpaceX would eventually be certified

Is she telegraphing by use of the word "eventually" that the certification process may not wrap up in time for SpaceX to win the NROL-79 competition? Or is "pretty optimistic" telegraphing that certification will likely happen in time for contract award?

Perhaps someone more astute at reading the political tea leaves can comment.
« Last Edit: 11/20/2014 04:23 am by Kabloona »

Offline MTom

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #1 on: 11/20/2014 10:56 am »
Reading between the lines in this article, it seems likely that the ongoing competition Lt Gen Pawlikowski referred to is for the upcoming NROL-79 mission. SpaceX had not previously commented on whether or not they would submit a bid, though it seemed likely they would.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/19/us-usa-space-engine-idUSKCN0J323W20141119

Quote
SpaceX was permitted to submit a bid for that specific launch, even before it was certified, but it must meet the Air Force's requirements to win the contract.

That statement seems to suggest that if the certification process is not finished by the time of contract award in December, SpaceX cannot win the competition.

Quote
A top U.S. Air Force official on Wednesday said she is "pretty optimistic" that privately held Space Exploration Technologies will eventually be certified to launch U.S. military satellites into orbit but declined comment on the timing of such an action...Pawlikowski said she was "pretty optimistic" that SpaceX would eventually be certified

Is she telegraphing by use of the word "eventually" that the certification process may not wrap up in time for SpaceX to win the NROL-79 competition? Or is "pretty optimistic" telegraphing that certification will likely happen in time for contract award?

Perhaps someone more astute at reading the political tea leaves can comment.

Maybe both of them because in short term the situation is fully open yet.

This could be much more a "break the silence" statement.
I have only opinions, which party wants the silent continuing and which wants to break it again and again.  ;)

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #2 on: 11/20/2014 11:08 am »
You sure that's for NROL-79? While there was one previous report of this probably being up for bid, this article did not mention what payload they are putting up.  ::)
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #3 on: 11/20/2014 01:17 pm »
You sure that's for NROL-79?

Am I sure? No. That's why I only said it "seems likely." And perhaps I should have added a question mark at the end of the thread title to indicate the uncertainty.

But NROL-79 is the only active Air Force procurement I'm aware of that fits the time frame of this and several other articles mentioning a possible SpaceX bid. The RFP was released in July, bids were due in August, contract award is December, and period of performance is 2 years, implying launch late 2016/early 2017.

http://spaceref.biz/military-space/open-for-competition---air-force-releases-eelv-nrol-79-rfp.html

http://aviationweek.com/space/nro-mission-opens-door-spacexula-duel

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=501b3f07a35c850f98c7bdbab41b5c93&tab=core&_cview=1

In addition NROL-79 is the first EELV mission mentioned by SpaceX in their protest filing as one of the few they had been told by the Air Force that they would be allowed to bid on outside the ULA block buy. (See para. 58 in their filing below).

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34965.0;attach=591432

But if anyone has a better idea about which mission Lt Gen Pawlikowski was referring to, please feel free to post it.
« Last Edit: 11/20/2014 01:25 pm by Kabloona »

Offline sghill

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #4 on: 11/20/2014 07:51 pm »
Is she telegraphing by use of the word "eventually" that the certification process may not wrap up in time for SpaceX to win the NROL-79 competition? Or is "pretty optimistic" telegraphing that certification will likely happen in time for contract award?

Perhaps someone more astute at reading the political tea leaves can comment.

By saying "eventually" she's telegraphing her opinion that SpaceX is serious about achieving certification that's all.  If they don't make it soon, they'll go back and complete the remaining items on the punch list until they get there.  Happens all day long in the government contracting world.  This is just news because they are a high profile company.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2014 01:44 pm by sghill »
Bring the thunder!

Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #5 on: 11/21/2014 02:51 am »
<snip>

That statement seems to suggest that if the certification process is not finished by the time of contract award in December, SpaceX cannot win the competition.
<snip>


That's the statutory significance of certification.  So long as the F9 is in the process of being certified, they can bid on launches.  However, SpaceX can't be awarded a launch until certification is complete.  IMO, the structure of the RFP (with an award date so slightly prior to their projected certification date) was one of the factors that led SpaceX to protest the block buy.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #6 on: 11/21/2014 03:04 am »
I guess that's why the Air Force brass keep making public statements about how hard they're working to get SpaceX certified, so they aren't accused of foot-dragging and causing SpaceX to lose out on the NROL-79 mission as a result.

But obviously it's going to be down to the wire in December.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #7 on: 12/03/2014 01:17 pm »
Looking likely that certification will happen in time for SpaceX to compete for NROL-79:

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/42700spacex-now-expects-us-air-force-certification-by-year’s-end
« Last Edit: 12/03/2014 01:20 pm by Kabloona »

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #8 on: 12/03/2014 02:14 pm »
I think the Air Force can also be playing a game drawing ULA to present a better price. As well as setting the table for eventual competition whether it's for this launch or another. It's coming soon.
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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #9 on: 12/14/2014 02:00 pm »
With the new bill being signed that prohibits new contracts to companies that use Russian engines, is this award included?  Are all 7-9 flights that are to be competitively bid included?  What are the USAF options?
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Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #10 on: 12/14/2014 04:37 pm »
With the new bill being signed that prohibits new contracts to companies that use Russian engines,

Not applicable.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #11 on: 12/18/2014 12:34 pm »
Looks like certification will be announced soon:

http://spacenews.com/spacex-waits-for-certification-decision-from-air-force/

This is a rather interesting comment from Gen. Hyten, commander of AFSC:

Quote
"Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command, said that the final word on certification now rests with Lt. Gen. Sam Greaves, commander of the Space and Missile Systems Center at Los Angeles Air Force Base.

“He’ll make that decision when he’s ready,” Hyten said in an interview with SpaceNews. “All of the information has come to him now. He has to walk through and decide where he’s going to go and what he’s going to do.

“I would imagine there would be an announcement this month sometime. I think we need to make a public announcement some time because it is December and that’s the month we’ve been shooting for,” Hyten continued. “I don’t know where he’s going to come out but I can tell you SpaceX and the 150 Air Force personnel who have been working that issue have been working it night and day to try to get there. I think we’re close.”

When your boss is a General who says publicly that he thinks you need to make a public announcement soon...you make a public announcement soon.

Offline dcporter

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #12 on: 12/19/2014 05:51 am »
Any day now™

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #13 on: 12/30/2014 01:52 pm »
Any day now™

Well, it's either today or tomorrow, the last two days in December, or SpaceX loses out on NROL-79.

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #14 on: 12/30/2014 03:53 pm »
Any day now™

Well, it's either today or tomorrow, the last two days in December, or SpaceX loses out on NROL-79.

watch the announcement come on late Friday.   They don't want so much PR attn. for bids.  :o
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Offline watermod

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #15 on: 12/30/2014 05:30 pm »
Any day now™

Well, it's either today or tomorrow, the last two days in December, or SpaceX loses out on NROL-79.

watch the announcement come on late Friday.   They don't want so much PR attn. for bids.  :o
Friday being Jan 2, 2015, doesn't that make it too late and just put more ire behind the lawsuit?

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #16 on: 12/30/2014 05:33 pm »
Yes, too late, and a very unhappy New Year's "gift" to Elon. More like a sharp stick in the eye.

If they don't announce certification by Wednesday, they may as well wait a month or so to ease the pain. Announcing a day or two late would be downright cruel.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2014 05:35 pm by Kabloona »

Offline MTom

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #17 on: 12/30/2014 05:48 pm »
What counts: the day of announcement or the day of the sign on the certificate?
If the second, an announcement could be placed on friday too, unless signed earlier.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #18 on: 12/30/2014 05:58 pm »
What counts: the day of announcement or the day of the sign on the certificate?
If the second, an announcement could be placed on friday too, unless signed earlier.

Yes, it's the date of certification that matters, not the announcement itself. But I don't know why the Air Force would delay the announcement once certification has been granted. General Hyten's comments posted earlier seemed to suggest he thought it was important that the announcement be made ASAP.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2014 06:03 pm by Kabloona »

Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX bids for NROL-79 mission
« Reply #19 on: 12/30/2014 09:45 pm »
Say SpaceX doesn't actually get certification until some time in January.  They couldn't be awarded this launch.  Could they dispute the award and get it on review after they are certified?  i.e. if their certification comes so soon after the deadline for awarding the launch, would a GAO review take the new conditions into consideration or are they strictly limited to the state of affairs at the time the award was made?
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

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