Author Topic: Venus. The indomitable planet  (Read 4107 times)

Offline ShubinPavel

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Venus. The indomitable planet
« on: 03/04/2017 04:45 am »
Good afternoon!

My name is Shubin Pavel. A couple of years ago I published a book dedicated to the study of Venus. :)

Here you can see how the book looks

http://pilot-pirks.livejournal.com/101984.html

I want to translate it into English. While the small fragment is ready.

http://shubinpavel.ru/Venus_Pavel_Shubin_eng.pdf

And I wonder how he competently turned out. Would be glad to hear the comments.
« Last Edit: 11/23/2017 02:16 am by gongora »

Offline faramund

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #1 on: 03/04/2017 07:08 am »
Well, the section you've sent is understandable, but it is not smooth to read. I have several research students who have come from non-English speaking countries, and this reminds me a lot of what they initially do. The words are generally correct, but the structure is 'not quite correct', in a way that native English speakers both find jarring, and also slows down the rate at which they can read. Another similarity is the definite/indefinite articles (the/a) are frequently not correctly used.

Apart from this, it does look like the book has a lot of interesting material in it.
« Last Edit: 03/04/2017 07:09 am by faramund »

Offline ShubinPavel

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #2 on: 03/04/2017 12:48 pm »
Can you advise a Russian-English translator? Preferably with knowledge of space terminology

Online Blackstar

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Offline sanman

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Offline VIY

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #5 on: 11/23/2017 12:06 am »
Good afternoon!

My name is Shubin Pavel. A couple of years ago I published a book dedicated to the study of Venus. :)

Here you can see how the book looks

http://pilot-pirks.livejournal.com/101984.html

I want to translate it into English. While the small fragment is ready.

http://shubinpavel.ru/Venus_Pavel_Shubin_eng.pdf

And I wonder how he competently turned out. Would be glad to hear the comments.

Is the book available in russian?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #6 on: 11/23/2017 12:19 am »
 Indometable?
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #7 on: 11/23/2017 01:47 am »
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/armed-tough-computer-chips-scientists-are-ready-return-hell-venus

What are they using - an old 8088 made with Silicone Carbide?

More so a clock chip that's probably equivalent to a 4000 series IC.
They'd need at least another order of power higher transistor count to make a simple microprocessor.
« Last Edit: 11/23/2017 01:50 am by Patchouli »

Online Blackstar

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #8 on: 11/23/2017 02:06 am »

Offline jpo234

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« Last Edit: 11/24/2017 01:18 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Sam Ho

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Re: Venus. The indometable planet
« Reply #10 on: 11/24/2017 02:39 pm »
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/armed-tough-computer-chips-scientists-are-ready-return-hell-venus

What are they using - an old 8088 made with Silicone Carbide?

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/02/venus-computer-chip/
As described in that paper, they built two test chips, 3 and 11 stage ring oscillators, so about 6 and 22 transistors. The 3 stage one ran for the entire 3 weeks the test chamber was available. The 11 stage one ran for about a week before the feed through wires connecting it to the outside world shorted out.

An 8088 has about 29,000 transistors. The 4004 has about 2,300 transistors.

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: Venus. The indomitable planet
« Reply #11 on: 11/24/2017 03:53 pm »
This is a most fascinating thread. 

Even if the transistor footprint can’t be decreased with better lithography, the number of transistors needed for an 8088 equivalent chip would fit on a single 150mm wafer. 

The failure of the test article was the connecting wires, not the IC performance, so this is encouraging that the substrate & thin film metallurgy are pretty stable at their given size.  Reducing transistor size just 1 order of magnitude would likely put the finished area of substrate within the capability of various advanced packaging schemes.

Most SiC work I know of is not pushing the limits of lithography or metal dep.  It’s more in the realm of compound semiconductor products like PA’s, switches, filters etc.  Transistor density just isnt critical on these devices, so the fabs supporting them don’t spend on unneeded litho capability.  This problem seems solvable by throwing money at it.

Of equal interest is how to generate power on the surface of Venus.  Is current RTG technology capable of operating on Venus?   If that problem can be solved,  TEC should  also be implemented on the critical electronics packages. 

Offline vjkane

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Re: Venus. The indomitable planet
« Reply #12 on: 11/24/2017 05:05 pm »
It feels to me that a full up mission is a decade away, although I could see a technology demonstration occurring earlier.  The lack of memory circuits seems to be crucial, especially for seismometry which both produces large amounts of data and occurs at random times (i.e., usually no orbiter overhead for real time data relay).

RTGs have been proposed for the Venus surface but I believe that the fundamental problem is that they depend on temperature differences, and given Venus' ambient temperature, their performance is reduced.  Anyone know more?

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: Venus. The indomitable planet
« Reply #13 on: 11/24/2017 06:00 pm »
The first order problem is to get significant power from the RTG.  The hot side of the power circuit will be around 1000C, and the cold side ( Venusian ambient) is around 470 C.  The delta T of 530 C is probably enough for some advanced phononic TEC's to generate power.   I think the efficiency depends on how many modes of vibration in the substrate lattice exist across the junction.  I wish I knew more about this area of science, it is pretty specialized and not very mainstream. 

Once you get some excess power, you can start designing instruments within the power budget.   Getting the electronics to operate at ambient Venusian temperature is a huge accomplishment in that it frees up the power budget for mobility, communications, sensors etc.    Active cooling may be needed for some critical electronics, ( memory was mentioned upthread)  but active cooling is going to be very inefficient & would not be viable for the entire electrical system & still leave power for other systems.

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: Venus. The indomitable planet
« Reply #14 on: 11/24/2017 07:49 pm »
Back to the topic, I am working through the 40 page .pdf you posted, & would echo Farmund's critique.  For English readers, this translation comes across with a distinct Russian accent.  I think that can work to your advantage in many instances, as so much of what is known about Venus originates with Russian efforts. 

Maybe enlist a good technical editor proficient in Russian to English publications?  If you can't do that, just go for it without the editor.  The subject is interesting enough that those really interested will not be put off.  I also thought it may be worth a page or two to include speculative manned missions to the vincinity of Venus, such as Inspiration Mars in your "part 4".

Offline sanman

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Re: Venus. The indomitable planet
« Reply #15 on: 11/25/2017 03:58 am »
What about solar power? The Venera images show that the light side of Venus has a fair amount of light. If you could harvest the sunlight, as well as infrared waves from the ambient environmental heat, then maybe you could use that for power.

So supposing you come up with the hardware to make a viable rover - what's the most useful thing it can study on Venus? Everything on the surface looks like a blackened volcanic landscape. What's worth studying the most?

I think it would be nice to see and hear the sights and sounds on the surface of Venus, where I've read lightning storms are about as common as on Earth. Having a transmission feed come back conveying both the sights and the sounds together would be the next best thing to being there in person, and could help to capture the imagination of the public.


Offline missinglink

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Re: Venus. The indomitable planet
« Reply #16 on: 11/25/2017 01:04 pm »
Can you advise a Russian-English translator? Preferably with knowledge of space terminology

Who is paying for the translation -- you? That limits your options. Russian-to-English translators with a track record of producing top-quality work for publication mostly reside in the U.S. and the UK. You won't be able to afford them on your Russian salary, I'm afraid. That leaves anglophone expats living in Russia and R-to-E translators based in the West who are just starting out or looking to make a lateral change.

I would suggest advertising your translator search far and wide, on every website you can think of. Ask every candidate whether they are willing to translate a sample page for you gratis, so that you get an idea of the quality they are capable of producing. Most will agree to this. Choose the single most challenging page, but e-mail them the entire book. Needless to say, every candidate gets the exact same page. Then find someone to help you evaluate the submissions, preferably an American (the U.S. is the biggest book market) with some expertise in the field.

Out of the top two or three sample translations, choose the candidate who can offer you the best deal (cost; time to completion; published work; sci-tech qualifications; intangibles).

Start saving up your roubles now. As an alternative to self-publishing, consider finding a publisher to handle matters such as translation for you; but set yourself a target date by which, if you haven't found a publisher, you will self-publish.

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